Athlai
Not Terrible
Alright WW.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe and South Africa 2015
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Guptill, Williamson, Elliott and....Ronchi?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
You were probably counting Latham. "Proven" isn't the right word but he clearly has the ability to construct a long ODI innings and ton up which plays into your point.
Athlai
Not Terrible
It's what WW would have done.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The worst thing about this series was that Farhaan Berhardien, spud-supreme, seemed to play well.
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Let's be honest, between the 4-5 french-cuts for 4, the 3-4 dropped catches & the 20 or so runs from miss-fielding (8 from the typically sloppy Ronchi within 2 overs), SA shouldn't have got much more than 230 this morning, so it would have been truly bizarre had NZ chased that score down after gifting close to 50 runs.
The 2nd half of SA's innings was simply the worst fielding display I've ever witnessed from NZ in all my years watching. Absolutely diabolical.
Even though today was the stand-out in terms of disgusting performances, It's been noticeable that NZ's fielding standard has dropped off in the absence of McCullum, even in the previous games. I suppose this just illustrates how much Bmac's 'lead from the front' attitude' sets the tone for the others.
Other pros and cons from that game (I might do some series ratings later)
Pros;
Latham's batting - Outside of AB, probably looked the best batsman from either side on that wicket, and in some ways timed the ball even better than AB.
Elliott's bowling - Really good in this game (and all series) just when I'd written his bowling off forever
Bracewell's bowling - Really good signs from Dougie in terms of being a genuine ODI prospect.
Milne - Was really impressive again last night, just not backed up in the field
Cons;
Sodhi - had a good tour overall, but once again his lack of control was called into question with so many long-hops, and his fielding is a concern moving forward.
Wheeler- the amount of times he seemingly loses concentration/focus and bowls a 4-ball, usually in the last ball of the over is concerning
Ronchi - the guy's on borrowed time. Even forgetting about his dismal batting since he scored that 170, he keeping has become an utter joke, an absolute liability. And his constant chirping/encouragement must just be like meaningless 'white-noise' to the others, when he fails to maintain decent standards himself.
The 2nd half of SA's innings was simply the worst fielding display I've ever witnessed from NZ in all my years watching. Absolutely diabolical.
Even though today was the stand-out in terms of disgusting performances, It's been noticeable that NZ's fielding standard has dropped off in the absence of McCullum, even in the previous games. I suppose this just illustrates how much Bmac's 'lead from the front' attitude' sets the tone for the others.
Other pros and cons from that game (I might do some series ratings later)
Pros;
Latham's batting - Outside of AB, probably looked the best batsman from either side on that wicket, and in some ways timed the ball even better than AB.
Elliott's bowling - Really good in this game (and all series) just when I'd written his bowling off forever
Bracewell's bowling - Really good signs from Dougie in terms of being a genuine ODI prospect.
Milne - Was really impressive again last night, just not backed up in the field
Cons;
Sodhi - had a good tour overall, but once again his lack of control was called into question with so many long-hops, and his fielding is a concern moving forward.
Wheeler- the amount of times he seemingly loses concentration/focus and bowls a 4-ball, usually in the last ball of the over is concerning
Ronchi - the guy's on borrowed time. Even forgetting about his dismal batting since he scored that 170, he keeping has become an utter joke, an absolute liability. And his constant chirping/encouragement must just be like meaningless 'white-noise' to the others, when he fails to maintain decent standards himself.
Last edited:
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Latham's batting is a pro moving forward for test cricket.
I still have stern reservations about his value as an ODI cricketer until he scores more swiftly.
I still have stern reservations about his value as an ODI cricketer until he scores more swiftly.
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
My NZ player ratings purely for the 3 match ODI series vs. SA.
With respect to Zim, this series was the real test.
Latham 8 - With Milne, the find of the tour for me. 3 successive 50s, SR 75. I don't necessarily buy into the criticism of his scoring rate either. If NZ can consistently be 90-100 for no more than 2 down after 20 overs with the likes of Bmac, Anderson, Murno/Neesham down the order, we'll get 300+ more often than not.
Milne 8 - Along with Latham (and Bracewell to a lesser extent), the find of the tour. 5 wickets @ 26 and an ER of 4.46 is an excellent return, & could have been so much better if not for the dropped catches. Although only 3-4 deliveries were over 150 clicks, was consistently between 143-149 kms which is a great sign.
Bracewell 7.5- Really (& surprising so for me) impressive in his two games, even if he did lose concentration with the ball a couple of times yesterday. Although 4 wickets vs. top opposition and an ER of 4.25 is top drawer in anyone's language.
Guptill 7.5 - Class act these days. Seems to understand his game better than ever before and is generally worth 10-15 runs in the field.
Munro - 6 averaging 34 @ a SR of 89 and got through 8 overs with an ER of just 4.12, but did have a mind explosion in trying to reverse sweep Tahir of all people when IIRC it was his last over.
Williamson - 6 - Poor series with the bat by his own high standards averaging just 31 with a SR of just 65, but gets above 5 since his captaincy was generally impressive, even if the fielding standards did drop under his leadership and he did over-bowled Sodhi yesterday.
Elliott 6- Didn't fire with the bat, but a revelation with the ball, especially in yesterday's conditions. 3 wickets @ 21 and an ER of 4.23 was excellent. Shows he still has a bit to offer NZ cricket yet.
Worker 5 - Wasn't terrible, but unfortunately does strike as one of those batsmen not quite able to step up to the next level, however probably worth persevering with at NZ A level.
Wheeler 5 - Interesting series. 3 wickets @ 36 with an ER of 5.64 wasn't far below par. The guy actually has a lot going for him, generally has good control & gets a bit of movement. As I said above, just seems to lose concentration at times, and often and annoyingly, the last delivery of an over. Definitely should be there or thereabouts on the fringes once Boult and co are fit.
Neesham 4 - In his only game, was quite solid with the bat, but typically expensive with the ball
Sodhi 4 - Looked impressive in patches of the African tour and is much improved, but when it came to the pressure of the SA part of the series, his propensity to bowl long-hops and a general lack of control drifted back into play. Also his fielding is a liability.
McClenaghan - 2 - one game for his usual garbage, 1-72 off 10 overs. Surely must be way down the pecking order in terms of NZ's top pace options now
N McCullum 1 - Whether it's dotting up with the bat (with the weird exception of hitting the ball well 1 in every 30 innings or so i.e. that 20 off the last vs. SL) or his innocious darts fired in at leg stump, we need to look past this guy into the future. Tbf, I can't quite remember, but I think had Santner been fit, he may not have toured.
Ronchi 0 - How can it be anything other than a zero rating. Scored 1 run from 7 balls in his 2 bats and was absolutely diabliocal with the gloves. Struggling to see how you could warrant selecting him again after his village returns in his last 18 innings or so.
With respect to Zim, this series was the real test.
Latham 8 - With Milne, the find of the tour for me. 3 successive 50s, SR 75. I don't necessarily buy into the criticism of his scoring rate either. If NZ can consistently be 90-100 for no more than 2 down after 20 overs with the likes of Bmac, Anderson, Murno/Neesham down the order, we'll get 300+ more often than not.
Milne 8 - Along with Latham (and Bracewell to a lesser extent), the find of the tour. 5 wickets @ 26 and an ER of 4.46 is an excellent return, & could have been so much better if not for the dropped catches. Although only 3-4 deliveries were over 150 clicks, was consistently between 143-149 kms which is a great sign.
Bracewell 7.5- Really (& surprising so for me) impressive in his two games, even if he did lose concentration with the ball a couple of times yesterday. Although 4 wickets vs. top opposition and an ER of 4.25 is top drawer in anyone's language.
Guptill 7.5 - Class act these days. Seems to understand his game better than ever before and is generally worth 10-15 runs in the field.
Munro - 6 averaging 34 @ a SR of 89 and got through 8 overs with an ER of just 4.12, but did have a mind explosion in trying to reverse sweep Tahir of all people when IIRC it was his last over.
Williamson - 6 - Poor series with the bat by his own high standards averaging just 31 with a SR of just 65, but gets above 5 since his captaincy was generally impressive, even if the fielding standards did drop under his leadership and he did over-bowled Sodhi yesterday.
Elliott 6- Didn't fire with the bat, but a revelation with the ball, especially in yesterday's conditions. 3 wickets @ 21 and an ER of 4.23 was excellent. Shows he still has a bit to offer NZ cricket yet.
Worker 5 - Wasn't terrible, but unfortunately does strike as one of those batsmen not quite able to step up to the next level, however probably worth persevering with at NZ A level.
Wheeler 5 - Interesting series. 3 wickets @ 36 with an ER of 5.64 wasn't far below par. The guy actually has a lot going for him, generally has good control & gets a bit of movement. As I said above, just seems to lose concentration at times, and often and annoyingly, the last delivery of an over. Definitely should be there or thereabouts on the fringes once Boult and co are fit.
Neesham 4 - In his only game, was quite solid with the bat, but typically expensive with the ball
Sodhi 4 - Looked impressive in patches of the African tour and is much improved, but when it came to the pressure of the SA part of the series, his propensity to bowl long-hops and a general lack of control drifted back into play. Also his fielding is a liability.
McClenaghan - 2 - one game for his usual garbage, 1-72 off 10 overs. Surely must be way down the pecking order in terms of NZ's top pace options now
N McCullum 1 - Whether it's dotting up with the bat (with the weird exception of hitting the ball well 1 in every 30 innings or so i.e. that 20 off the last vs. SL) or his innocious darts fired in at leg stump, we need to look past this guy into the future. Tbf, I can't quite remember, but I think had Santner been fit, he may not have toured.
Ronchi 0 - How can it be anything other than a zero rating. Scored 1 run from 7 balls in his 2 bats and was absolutely diabliocal with the gloves. Struggling to see how you could warrant selecting him again after his village returns in his last 18 innings or so.
Last edited:
Flem274*
123/5
yeah latham gets a big tick for this tour
in fairness to my WWness any team touring SA without 4-5 of their best players won't be expecting much and winning two games (one quite convincingly) was a pleasant surprise.
and i would hope a full strength nz can beat SA without their best, otherwise it would be a bit ****.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Latham is an 8? What was Latham's SR? 75? He will lose more matches than win them until he score runs more swiftly. Put it this way, a SR score of 225 loses far more often than it wins these days. He could average a Bradman 99.94 and all I see are losses and the opposition not trying to dismiss him. Until he gets that SR up he is a liability, and not an asset in ODi cricket.
Munro a 6? Underbowled and needs to bat higher. He plays "reverse" sweep or pull shots as though they are prod through point. No extra "discredit" needs to be applied to that dismissal. Its not Gatting at the 1987 World Cup. The "reverse" sweep or pull is a regular scoring shot for Colin.
Last edited:
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
You clearly didn't read my rationale as to why his 75 SR doesn't particularly bother me.
Couldn't disagree more & once again I don't think you read my comments about that. I actually love the guy's reverse sweep, he plays it as well as anyone, but that was Tahir's last over the other night and NZ'ders were struggling to pick his wrong-in, so it just seemed such a low percentage shot to attempt against him, of all the bowlers when he could have seen him off.
Last edited:
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Because you think 225 is a good score? Its not 1980 Zinzan. And stop expecting the middle and lower order to save the innings. There are "powerplay overs" at the start of an innings that are advantageous to openers to SR at more than a "225" SR 75. The longer Latham bats, the lower the NZ score is. That is a problem. He's not scoring at 5 runs an over at the 20 over stage Zinzan, like you seem to think that he is. He's 225, not 250. 250 is probably too slow these days.
There are no "buts". Its a standard shot for Colin, therefore its a standard dismissal to a high percentage scoring shot of Colin's. Tahir is not Murali. End of.
Last edited:
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
So you think being say 90/1 after 20 overs with KW, Taylor, BMac, Anderson, Munro/Neesham's wickets in hand = a score of 225? If so, there's no point debating that any further.
If you can't get why trying to reverse Tahir in his last over was a low-percentage option, whether the reverse-sweep is a strength of Munro's or not, then I've nothing further to say.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
A SR of 75 = 225. An opener has the luxury with 10 "power play" overs that no other batsmen have. Even Kerry Packer hoped for better when he started World Series Cricket in the 70's - I think.
I hope you can at least keep your word on this, a bowler getting a wicket to a batsman's high percentage scoring shot, to then criticise the batsmen for playing said shot.
Last edited:
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Actually Tahir isn't as far off a modern day Murali as you'd like to think if we're purely talking ODIs. 44 matches, 77 wickets @ 21 with an ER of 4.36, comfortably the best ODI spinner in the world currently.
It's interesting that our thought processes couldn't be more different. So when Tahir was bowling that last over (having been the main threat to NZ that day with a really tough-to-pick wrong-in) & I was thinking to myself... "C'mon, just see this last 2-3 deliveries out and his spell will be over and you can attack the lesser bowlers' ...you were thinking "C'mon Colin, reverse sweep him' ? Interesting stuff.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
I think all batsmen should play their high percentage shots and score swiftly.
And yet Sky TV announce a 170 millon dollar proft. Mutha ********* But my views on Latham remian resolute. He needs to score nore swiftly to not be a liability. His average is next to meaningless with a SR of 75, even if its 99.94.Flem274* said:
Last edited:
AndyZaltzHair
Hall of Fame Member
got to take match situation into account
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
What word am I keeping? You're the one maintaining that attempting to reverse sweep the most dangerous bowler in the opposition, who had bamboozled all the other batsmen with his variations, when he had just a couple of balls remaining in his spell was high percentage. That's your word, not mine, and I think you'd struggle to find another person in this universe, including Colin himself, who'd suggest that was in hindsight a high-percentage option against Tahir at that particular time.