***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[hendrix]

you're not born with hand-eye coordination either. That's what all the crawling is about.

 

[Flem274*]

It can be honed and improved for sure, but it fits into the talent box much more cleanly. Technique being labelled a talent is a pet peeve of mine and where I disagree with Hurricane. KW could adopt the Southee technique and attitude tomorrow and he would still be as talented as he is today, he would just be batting like a ******.

Hendo I don't quite get where you are on this. Do you think hand eye is talent?

 

[Hurricane]

It is. No one is born with their batting technique. Sure some stuff feels more comfortable, but KW didn't pop out of his mother with the batting textbook in his brain. i can't take technique = talent seriously.

Then every man and their dog who practiced hard in high school would have awesome technique, but we don't. I trained every day Flem. Neighbours thought I was going to be a blackcap when I grew up because I was out there every single evening practicing. And now I am play in Wellington's 3rd grade and I have a very average technique. I was also born with good hand eye flem and at my first cricket practice against a real cricket ball holding a real cricket bat I smoked 4 successive fours across the road and out of the park. That was when I was only 8. Explain to me why I am not a black cap if I was born with good hand eye coordination and trained my ass off in high school.





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[wellAlbidarned]

because you went to hillcrest not HBHS

 

[Hurricane]

 

[Flem274*]

Then every man and their dog who practiced hard in high school would have awesome technique, but we don't. I trained every day Flem. Neighbours thought I was going to be a blackcap when I grew up because I was out there every single evening practicing. And now I am play in Wellington's 3rd grade and I have a very average technique. I was also born with good hand eye flem and at my first cricket practice against a real cricket ball holding a real cricket bat I smoked 4 successive fours across the road and out of the park. That was when I was only 8. Explain to me why I am not a black cap if I was born with good hand eye coordination and trained my ass off in high school.





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I hate to sound like a dick because I'm the worst cricketer in the world, but you probably didn't have all that special hand eye and your technique might not have been perfect. I have/had a pretty good batting technique but I can't hit anything faster than a light breeze despite being able to see it (it's maddening) and whenever I was fortunate enough to get a few runs in high school I had no idea about what to do in match situations when I was in the heat of them. I just dropped anchor and ran like hell if I fluked a ball into a gap.

Also when the bowling gets harder your technique can fall to bits because you're using all your talent or whatever just to do a couple of things and get bat on ball. I see the same thing happen in the showjumping ring. ****s ride perfectly outside the ring then go through the flags and fall to pieces because when it's real it's harder to ride or bat or whatever consciously and you'll follow the instincts and habits you've created in practice, good or bad, because the adrenaline is pumping and everything is happening right now and you have all sorts of thoughts going through your head that you don't have on the other side of the rope.

I realise it's very easy for me to play pop-psychologist but practice and the game are very different.

Look at Peter Ingram. He swallowed the textbook in his youth but it didn't work for him because he couldn't do all the little things at once that having a good technique requires. He found batting much easier when he reduced it to see ball, hit ball.

Kane Williamson learned his technique, and then he worked on reproducing it through harder and harder levels of practice and game.

 

[Hurricane]

I hate to sound like a dick because I'm the worst cricketer in the world, but you probably didn't have all that special hand eye and your technique might not have been perfect. I have/had a pretty good batting technique but I can't hit anything faster than a light breeze despite being able to see it (it's maddening) and whenever I was fortunate enough to get a few runs in high school I had no idea about what to do in match situations when I was in the heat of them. I just dropped anchor and ran like hell if I fluked a ball into a gap.

Also when the bowling gets harder your technique can fall to bits because you're using all your talent or whatever just to do a couple of things and get bat on ball. I see the same thing happen in the showjumping ring. ****s ride perfectly outside the ring then go through the flags and fall to pieces because when it's real it's harder to ride or bat or whatever consciously and you'll follow the instincts and habits you've created in practice, good or bad, because the adrenaline is pumping and everything is happening right now and you have all sorts of thoughts going through your head that you don't have on the other side of the rope.

I realise it's very easy for me to play pop-psychologist but practice and the game are very different.

Look at Peter Ingram. He swallowed the textbook in his youth but it didn't work for him because he couldn't do all the little things at once that having a good technique requires. He found batting much easier when he reduced it to see ball, hit ball.

Kane Williamson learned his technique, and then he worked on reproducing it through harder and harder levels of practice and game.

Some truth to this and also some truth to my argument. I will explain.

Mark Bailey a former FC cricketer who batted in high school with me told me I was picking up the ball late as a 14 year old. He was 16 at the time and watching me from the non strikers end, He simply saw it earlier than anyone else in our school. So this supports your theory that hand eye coordination is key.

However other 14 year old kids my age who were better than me (and there were only two kids at our school in this category) didn't pick it up any earlier than me - they just had more shots in their arsenal. That meant they didn't get bogged down and didn't require as much concentration powers to construct a long inning (you have to really be disciplined to do a tim mcintosh while it is easier to bat for longer if you are scoring freely). One fellow also called mark was selected ahead of me for the Hamilton Under 13s on the basis he could do a crunching bat foot drive against 110kmh bowling at the age of 11. Don't laugh at 110kmh bowling it is probably what most opening bowlers in high school bowl in 3rd and 4th form.

How do you learn such a difficult shot at such a young age? It took me years before I mastered that shot. And until I was 18 before I could play a hook shot. More talented kids had all of those shots at 12 years old and were getting picked for age group teams while poor old Cane was being named Vice Captain of the Hamilton C team.
More talented kids learn cricketing technique and all the shots faster than other kids. That is what talent does for you.

 

[Hurricane]

Also Flem having re-read your post. Given you have posted you were a stone walling tail ender I doubt you have good technique beyond a superb defensive system. A good technique includes having mastered all the attacking shots. And I mean each and every one of them.

 

[GGG]

you're not born with hand-eye coordination either. That's what all the crawling is about.

But it is still genetic so you are born with the blue print.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

LONG STORY SHORT

Some people are born naturally inclined to be better at some things than other people. This can be improved through practise. Those who are naturally better tend to gain greater oppurtunities from a younger age to further improve therefore exaggerating this gulf between "talented" individuals and non talented ones. Technique is the result of muscle memory and is therefore learned and not innate.

It's like the infuriating number of people who call good musicians talented. I'm like "**** off, you have to work your ****ing butt off to get to be a tenth as good as they are." Being naturally talented at something makes you inclined to work much harder at it, it doesn't automatically make you really good at it.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

because you went to hillcrest not HBHS

So good because its so true

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Phlegm should take some consolation from the fact he's not the worst batsmen on the forum. Hit double figures all of twice, 21* bitches.

 

[otagoman]

What was the reason for not sending over the specialist limited over players? I would imagine our usual lineup would be something like

Neesham/Williamson
Guptill
McCullum
Taylor
Anderson
Munro
Ronchi
McCullum
Southee
Mills
McClenaghan

Thats 5 regulars not there

 

[BeeGee]

What was the reason for not sending over the specialist limited over players?

The official reason is trying to build depth in the squad. The real reason is it's T20 and CBF.

 

[Blocky]

Sodhi's going to get murdered in this game but we knew that already. It's going to come down to how well Southee and Boult keep things interesting. Otherwise this innings could bloat out real quick

 

[viriya]

Honestly don't understand how Andre Russell keeps getting selected - nothing to suggest that he would do well.. He is like a ****tier version of Darren Sammy, and Sammy isn't that great either..

 

[otagoman]

His ODI record is pretty good

 

[viriya]

His ODI record is pretty good

Surpringly yes, so maybe I'm underestimating him.. but his T20I is as **** as it can get..

Southee looks like he's figuring out death bowling in limited over games.. something NZ have had a problem with.

 

[Blocky]

Too cute by Williamson there... what an idiot.

 

[Blocky]

So much to like about Taylor when he forgets about the slog sweep, stays still in the crease and doesn't premeditate.