***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[WindieWeathers]

I don't know why either.

Honestly, you need New Zealand to basically play bad for the West Indies to have a chance. You're relying on an inform batting line up ( Latham, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Neesham, Watling ) to get itself out to a bowling line up that is unproven in test cricket (especially with Shilly not able to bowl his doosra) and for a batting line up that outside of Chanderpaul, doesn't know what hard graft means to be able to stand up against a pretty good side of bowlers.

Could I see the Windies battling out a draw in the right conditions? Yes. But it would take a monumental screw up from New Zealand to give the Windies a chance. NZ are just on a better level now - NZ will compete with pretty much any side that isn't South Africa or an in-form Johnson lead Australia.

LOL i'm really loving the ****y attitude that's been developing from certain fans...but the reality is this.

1. You beat a weakened WI side at home

2. You beat a young india side in conditions they've always had issues in and even that was a little lucky as India really should have won that test

3. You've won the first test in the caribbean against a side that is going through some big changes now

I think people need to remember that this is pretty much the same top order that was bowled out for 50 against BOTH SA and England...and the majority of this top order were toyed with in India against their spinners.

NZ won the first game fair and square...no arguments from me. But i believe in the second innings our bowlers finally woke up and really put the NZ top order under some pressure and they didn't respond too well. Add to that the NZ's bowling may have issues where Boult is concerned..we'll see what happens in this second test...because if Craig doesn't get another 8fer and Boult is still struggling then what? those are the questions that might need answering over the next five days.

 

[Flem274*]

ooh yes this will be good

 

[Hurricane]

I don't see this ending happily

 

[Hurricane]

I think the mods should step in as a pre-emptive strike.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

 

[Blocky]

LOL i'm really loving the ****y attitude that's been devloping from certain fans...but the reality is this.

1. You beat a weakened WI side at home

2. You beat a young india side in conditions they've always had issues in and even that was a little lucky as India really should have won that test

3. You've won the first test in the caribbean against a side that is going through some big changes now

I think people need to remember that this is pretty much the same top order that was bowled out for 50 against BOTH SA and England...and the majority of this top order were toyed with in India against their spinners.

NZ won the first game fair and square...no arguments from me. But i believe in the second innings our bowlers finally woke up and really put the NZ top order under some pressure and they respond too well. Add to that the NZ's bowling may have issues where Boult is concerned..we'll see what happens in this second test...because if Craig doesn't get another 8fer and Boult is still struggling then what? those are the questions that might need answering over the next five days.

1. Before the test, you were saying this was the strongest side the Windies had put on the park in many years due to the return of Taylor and Roach and the inclusion of Benn and Shillingford would out perform the NZ bowling options. I think you even said Roach and Taylor were Southee's equal.

2. During the test, you were arguing and angry at people talking about the first day as if it was a foregone conclusion that New Zealand were in the box seat.

3. After the test, you've now decided that the team the Windies put up wasn't so strong and ultimately

"I think people need to remember that...."

Yes, I think people need to remember that the last two years for NZ has seen batting records be broken, five players average near fifty ( Williamson, Taylor, Watling, Neesham, McCullum) and three bowlers average below 30. (four if we include Craig) It's the very fact that the Windies are weakened that I say New Zealand will dominate them. It's also the fact that I understand the fragility of the unit against pure sustained pace like Johnson or the South Africans that means I wouldn't expect us to beat them - the rest of the nations though? NZ at home is becoming very hard to beat and NZ away from home is starting to put together much better performances.

"If Craig doesn't get an 8fer and Boult is still struggling" - I'm expecting both of those things to happen and NZ to still win. To be honest, about five of the eleven wickets you guys send to the crease would get themselves out to Ross Taylor in some shape or form. If Craig hadn't got an 8fer in the match, Southee would've done better than 6fer.

The Windies are heavily reliant on Chanderpaul performing every single innings and someone like Gayle or Bravo coming to the party to help them... the problem with that is that New Zealand have six players at the moment who are in the batting form of their lives ( Latham, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Neesham, Watling) and a bowler who has placed himself in the Top 4 (in my view) with Johnson, Philander and Steyn. They won't compete unless NZ makes a monumental **** up.. Take that to the bank. The idea that South Africa or England (in England) could blow this side away doesn't matter, Taylor and Roach aren't exactly Steyn and Philander, or Anderson and Broad, or Johnson and Harris.

 

[kyear2]

WW is being a tad overly optimistic, but Blocky is taking it beyond ****y and good natured sportsmanship. Think I agree with Hendrix and Hurricane on this one.

Just my personal opinion of course, but Blocky can tone it down a touch.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Roach wasn't any better in the second innings, we just did what we always do and got off to a real poor start because of Fulton and the failure of Williamson in the second innings which meant we went at about a run an over and let the bowlers look like superstars. It makes me laugh that you're bagging Wagner in one breath and praising Roach in the other, considering Roach is about as inconsistent as any bowler not named Mitchell Johnson (pre this year)

SMH honestly this is just crazy talk here. "Inconsistent"? the guy just came back from a SIX MONTH layoff and had not played a first class game before the first test..only a t20 game for his local side in barbados where he bowled four overs and then he played a two day game vs a young Barbados eleven..so the kid was totally cold in that first innings and it showed. Second innings he finally got his lines right and he alongside Taylor started to cause all sorts of problems...and the encouraging thing from our perspective is the last time Kemar played a test in trinidad he got a 10fer vs Australia..so write him off if you wish.

 

[SteveNZ]

Horses for courses to be honest. Anderson and Boult are very similar in terms of their effectiveness in the right conditions and ineffectiveness when conditions aren't right. I can only imagine the out rage if Hesson dropped Boult for the next test but ultimately, would anyone put money on Boult playing a big part in the next test match if conditions are similar to the first test? The other problem we have is that our all rounder at the moment isn't really much of a bowler unless (ironically) conditions suit - Neesham won't bowl effectively on these types of wickets, so now two out of our three mainline pacers aren't likely to contribute, leaving it to a green spinner, a guy who shouldn't even play for ND and Southee - who fortunately is now operating at a world class level.

You're true, it's a no brainer - get rid of Sodhi, play Wagner. But if we were only playing two frontline seamers in these conditions, or conditions befitting dust bowls, I'd take Wagner. That was my argument.

Course it's horses for courses. The thing is, Trent is guaranteed a new ball every Test and we don't know when one is going to go around corners. If it does, and Wagner takes it, we're at a disadvantage.

My opinion the whole way along was one spinner and Kane. So now it's Pidg and Kane + three seamers. Jimmy, as wonderful of a talent as he is, is (at this stage) fodder on flat decks at Test level. I truly believe he can become more than that, and he's one hell of an asset in helpful conditions with his batting talent added.

 

[WindieWeathers]

1. Before the test, you were saying this was the strongest side the Windies had put on the park in many years due to the return of Taylor and Roach and the inclusion of Benn and Shillingford would out perform the NZ bowling options. I think you even said Roach and Taylor were Southee's equal.

I said Roach AND Taylor together are Boult and Southee's equal acually..and judging by the first test was i far off? Boult only got one wicket and once again hid behind Southee.

2. During the test, you were arguing and angry at people talking about the first day as if it was a foregone conclusion that New Zealand were in the box seat.

And like i said that was due to me being upset that our BEST spinner and NZ's boogy man has been left on the sidelines.

3. After the test, you've now decided that the team the Windies put up wasn't so strong and ultimately

"I think people need to remember that...."

It was a team picked on reputation alone...not on current form...i wanted Brathwaite to start and i was bigging up Blackwood before the series started.

Yes, I think people need to remember that the last two years for NZ has seen batting records be broken, five players average near fifty ( Williamson, Taylor, Watling, Neesham, McCullum) and three bowlers average below 30. (four if we include Craig) It's the very fact that the Windies are weakened that I say New Zealand will dominate them. It's also the fact that I understand the fragility of the unit against pure sustained pace like Johnson or the South Africans that means I wouldn't expect us to beat them - the rest of the nations though? NZ at home is becoming very hard to beat and NZ away from home is starting to put together much better performances.

No-one is denying the improvement NZ have shown over the years...but don't get too carried away because there are still major weak points in that side that i believe the better teams will exploit.

"If Craig doesn't get an 8fer and Boult is still struggling" - I'm expecting both of those things to happen and NZ to still win. To be honest, about five of the eleven wickets you guys send to the crease would get themselves out to Ross Taylor in some shape or form. If Craig hadn't got an 8fer in the match, Southee would've done better than 6fer.

Ok..i'll hold you to that.

The Windies are heavily reliant on Chanderpaul performing every single innings and someone like Gayle or Bravo coming to the party to help them... the problem with that is that New Zealand have six players at the moment who are in the batting form of their lives ( Latham, Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Neesham, Watling) and a bowler who has placed himself in the Top 4 (in my view) with Johnson, Philander and Steyn. They won't compete unless NZ makes a monumental **** up.. Take that to the bank. The idea that South Africa or England (in England) could blow this side away doesn't matter, Taylor and Roach aren't exactly Steyn and Philander, or Anderson and Broad, or Johnson and Harris.

The truth is NZ only have three proven batsmen at the top level i.e Williamson, Taylor and Mccullum. The rest are still a work in progress and haven't proven themselves against the very best attacks in the game yet...the good sign for us is after Kane got his ton we got him, Taylor and Mccullum fairly cheaply twice...the difference in the game really wasn't those three...it was Neesham's knock and Craig getting wickets.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I think the mods should step in as a pre-emptive strike.

Why? no problem here..i've stated my opinion most of which were based on facts...i wasn't having a go at anyone.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Blocky with 26 posts out of the last 70-odd. Really manipulating the strike beautifully and playing shots off both feet. A stunning watch.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Might just have to stay up a bit longer

 

[Howsie]

I said Roach AND Taylor together are Boult and Southee's equal acually..and judging by the first test was i far off? Boult only got one wicket and once again hid behind Southee. .

Ah yes, career records, recent form, that all fly's out the door yet again. Now we can judge players on a test by test basis. Jimmy Neesham < Shiv Chanderpaul and he proved that by scoring more runs than him last test. FMD

Edit: Shane Shillingford best bat the Windies have, see second innings.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Ah yes, career records, recent form, that all fly's out the door yet again. Now we can judge players on a test by test basis. Jimmy Neesham < Shiv Chanderpaul and he proved that by scoring more runs than him last test. FMD

Edit: Shane Shillingford best bat the Windies have, see second innings.

But yet when i mentioned that Kemar's average was better than Southee's people didn't care about "career records"

 

[Howsie]

Yes you play that and then their you are a few pages later advocating Ramdin < Watling because of his recent form over the past two years.

 

[Flem274*]

Howsie the hungry crocodiles always eat the bigger number. 5 > 1, not 5 < 1.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yes you play that and then their you are a few pages later advocating Ramdin < Watling because of his recent form over the past two years.

Both Watling and Ramdin are doing well right now..but the truth is Watling's record is padded by tons against low opposition. Ramdin for all his faults has come back strong and at least has a ton away in England...Watlin hasn't done anything special against the very top sides yet.

 

[Howsie]

Both Watling and Ramdin are doing well right now..but the truth is Watling's record is padded by tons against low opposition. Ramdin for all his faults has come back strong and at least has a ton away in England...Watlin hasn't done anything special against the very top sides yet.

But career averages say Watling is better?

 

[Flem274*]

Watling was the only New Zealander other than Brownlie to come home looking like a good player and played a ridiculous knock alongside McCullum to save the unsaveable test.

He's the goods. He isn't going to suddenly disappear into the abyss.