**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

[Meridio]

Cricinfo suggesting NZ are considering playing two spinners. Dire idea if true; while Port Elizabeth sounds less suited to pace bowling than elsewhere in SA, our spinners simply aren't good enough to justify places ahead of our seam bowlers. Especially since they're also reporting that Franklin's out with a hamstring injury so we can't even use his pies in a third seamer role.

 

[Riggins]

jizz need to hurry up and pick T Mac again. What a legend.,

 

[Meridio]

Just reading the Cricinfo previews, and I really don't like what I'm hearing from the NZ camp. We've heard all week that our batsmen have been in the nets with the seamers bowling on shortened pitches, attacking the body and basically trying to simulate being peppered. Now, I've just read this from McCullum:

When you look at the South African line-up, there is a bit of discrepancy between theirs and ours. The aim at practice was two-fold: to toughen our batsman up and to get the bowlers more positive.

Two major problems with this:
1) None of our batsmen got bounced out in the first test. They nicked off/were bowled/lbw to balls on a good length. Why then are we practicing playing bouncers?

2) Our bowlers have had basically a full week of practice on a shortened pitch and bowling at the body. Now, when the test comes around, they need to go back to a full-length pitch and bowl normal lines and lengths. Seems like a good way to mess with your rhythm. We don't need our bowlers to be "more positive", they need to bowl good lines and lengths and be more consistent. I just hope we don't charge in all test bowling bouncer after bouncer, especially since it's meant to be a slower pitch.

Oh, and I suspect McCullum reads CW and is trying to wind us up:

He likes to play the game with a free spirit, and he has earned the right to be in this team

 

[Spiced]

Here you go: Key is to adapt quickly - Smith - SuperSport - Cricket

 

[Spiced]

If weather forecast are to go by the team batting first will have the advantage. Wind from the west day 1 = Batsmen friendly. Day 2 and 3 wind from the east = Bowler friendly.

There might be rain in the first secessions day 1 and 2.

Hope smitty wins the toss.

 

[Cabinet96]

I've always viewed it as a bit of an incorrect stereotype that South Africa will just bounce out opposition on home soil. Philander never bowls short and Steyn usually likes to bowl a full length to try and find some swing. Even when players like Raina and Sehwag went to South Africa they didn't once get out to the short ball (from memory) they got out to balls that swung or seamed.

 

[Blain]

Just reading the Cricinfo previews, and I really don't like what I'm hearing from the NZ camp. We've heard all week that our batsmen have been in the nets with the seamers bowling on shortened pitches, attacking the body and basically trying to simulate being peppered. Now, I've just read this from McCullum:



Two major problems with this:
1) None of our batsmen got bounced out in the first test. They nicked off/were bowled/lbw to balls on a good length. Why then are we practicing playing bouncers?

2) Our bowlers have had basically a full week of practice on a shortened pitch and bowling at the body. Now, when the test comes around, they need to go back to a full-length pitch and bowl normal lines and lengths. Seems like a good way to mess with your rhythm. We don't need our bowlers to be "more positive", they need to bowl good lines and lengths and be more consistent. I just hope we don't charge in all test bowling bouncer after bouncer, especially since it's meant to be a slower pitch.

Oh, and I suspect McCullum reads CW and is trying to wind us up:

I think the bouncer thing is media build up a bit. It's not like they only would have practised short pitched bowling...That Bmac quote was to toughen up the batters, doesn't mean bouncer training all day every day. More mental I would think. They have been practising with a laddle to replicate Morkel's height, which sounds like a decent idea.

I almost got the team right, except I had Martin in for Patel. But it's a sensible choice to leave Patel in, you dont want to many new faces in there at once. As for Patel being safe in his position, averaging 46 in tests and being safe in the team should not be the case.

 

[Binkley]

1) None of our batsmen got bounced out in the first test. They nicked off/were bowled/lbw to balls on a good length. Why then are we practicing playing bouncers?

2) Our bowlers have had basically a full week of practice on a shortened pitch and bowling at the body. Now, when the test comes around, they need to go back to a full-length pitch and bowl normal lines and lengths. Seems like a good way to mess with your rhythm. We don't need our bowlers to be "more positive", they need to bowl good lines and lengths and be more consistent. I just hope we don't charge in all test bowling bouncer after bouncer, especially since it's meant to be a slower pitch.

Both points are so true. The only time South Africa really went after the New Zealand batsman was on day 3, when we were finally showing some resistance. And do we really need to mess with Bracewell's length anymore than we have? The guy is such a good bowler when he is full and getting swing.

So Munroe and Wagner are in. Not much choice in bringing in Munroe given the lack of batting cover and the injury to Franklin - I hope he makes a fist of it. And I feel a bit bittersweet about Wagner's selection. It could spell the end for Martin, who has been such a brilliant player for us - especially once Southee makes his return. But on the other hand, he has lost his sharpness and I think Wagner is probably the better choice based on current form. The way Wagner played in his only tests worries me though. He was such rubbish in the West Indies. Whenever I have seen him play domestically though he has looked good (although, I think that is probably just twice) and he has a superb domestic record. So, maybe his poor debut was just a nerves thing. Fingers crossed that he comes good.

 

[hendrix]

These selections are awfully inconsistent IMO.

Chris Martin would have been a better choice bowling with a cross breeze. We don't need seam bowlers, we need swing bowlers.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I do appreciate Munro's honesty - we know that by far the majority of ex-pat ring ins will be thinking it, but at least Munro has been willing to say it:

Obviously it wasn't a dream to play for New Zealand because that would be a bit of a lie, growing up in South Africa

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Batting against bowling on short pitches sounds like a brilliant idea considering how large a factor Philander's extra pace was eh

 

[Athlai]

Good luck to our kiwi yarpie reinforcements.

 

[Kippax]

"He's an aggressive fella and he's fitted into the team brilliantly," McCullum said. "He's worked very hard in the nets and he's got a great attitude and he likes to play the game with a free spirit and has earned the right to be in the squad. We think at No 7 in the line-up he could be quite counter-attacking for us."

Wagner returns for his third test, his first since August after playing both tests in the West Indies. He became eligible for New Zealand last year.

The Otago left-armer was born in Pretoria and attended Afrikaans School for Boys (Affies) with AB de Villiers and Faf du Plessis, who will oppose him tonight.

He impressed McCullum and coach Mike Hesson with some brutal net spells after the team's defeat inside three days. McCullum wanted to replicate the fiery approach of South Africa's pacemen, particularly to the lower order, in a bid to square the series.

"Neil presents reverse swing options and it's where he's cut his teeth domestically as well is the ability to use the old ball and be aggressive with that," McCullum said.

"You don't always get into a team based on what you do in the nets but it certainly can't harm you if you're being aggressive and bowling extremely well in the nets. All roads pointed to Neil in this test match."

 

[Bahnz]

Has anyone had a crack at a "not born in NZ" NZ XI yet?

Raval IND
Watling SA
Cachopa SA
Sinclair AUS
Brownlie AUS
Munro SA
Craig Cachopa SA
Wagner SA
Nethula IND
Badenhorst AUS
Lamb SA

Batting muuuch stronger than the bowling. Pity that James Fuller is committed to England.

 

[straw man]

Has anyone had a crack at a "not born in NZ" NZ XI yet?

Raval IND
Watling SA
Cachopa SA
Sinclair AUS
Brownlie AUS
Munro SA
Craig Cachopa SA
Wagner SA
Nethula IND
Badenhorst AUS
Lamb SA

Batting muuuch stronger than the bowling. Pity that James Fuller is committed to England.

Heh , you can get XI just from players born in SA (+ CDG from Zim). From earlier in the thread:

Fine then. Yeah I probably should have guessed Badenhorst with a name like that. And Grant Elliott gives us XI!

BJ Watling
Carl Cachopa
Colin Munro
Craig Cachopa
Grant Elliott
Kruger Van Wyk
Brad Cachopa
Colin De Grandhomme
Roald Badenhorst
James Fuller
Neil Wagner

Edit: You have five for a born-in-non-SA-rest-of-world XI - need six more

Edit again: Lamb's born in Australia, not SA

 

[jcas0167]

Has anyone had a crack at a "not born in NZ" NZ XI yet?

I'd have Dipak Patel (Nairobi, Kenya) in for Nethula. Grant Elliot 12th man.

 

[straw man]

Wagner and Munro in, Franko and Martin out. These are the only changes for NZ.

Happy with this if true. Feel slightly sad for Martin who may have (and hopefully has) played his last test - would have been nice to announce retirement and play one last game. However tbh he's had plenty of chances to do this over the last 12 months and hasn't, so perhaps he's happy to ride off into the sunset more quietly.

Oh, and I suspect McCullum reads CW and is trying to wind us up:

He likes to play the game with a free spirit, and he has earned the right to be in this team

that's brilliant

 

[jcas0167]

If the pitch is more like NZ conditions as they're saying I have a feeling Munro is going to carve them up.

 

[Bahnz]

Happy with this if true. Feel slightly sad for Martin who may have (and hopefully has) played his last test - would have been nice to announce retirement and play one last game. However tbh he's had plenty of chances to do this over the last 12 months and hasn't, so perhaps he's happy to ride off into the sunset more quietly.

Yeah, I reckon Martin will continue to float around in the test squad (especially if Wagner gets pasted in this game) until the end of the current season and then call it quits. It would've been better if he'd announced last year's 3rd test v SA as his swansong, but I'm pleased that he's at least picked up some useful figures in (what's probably) his final game.

 

[NZTailender]

Oh, and I suspect McCullum reads CW and is trying to wind us up:

This whole 'right to be...' thing from McCullum is so wrong simply on the level that it shouldn't be a right to play for your country, but a ****ing privilege. The former breeds complacency and denial IMO; you want guys wanting to play hard for their country and to be there because they're the best pick, not because of some perceived right.

And I'm sure Baz is trying to be positive and upbeat with the whole aggressive thing, but learn to walk before you can ****ing run, man.

These selections are awfully inconsistent IMO.

Maybe, but these are goods changes. The reality is:
Martin is 38. I'm hoping he gets 1 Test v England to bow out properly, but I think Wagner is a better choice for this Test if we even want to begin to think about winning. Our main attack seems set with Boult-Southee-Bracewell for the future but as already shown, who comes in when one of those is injured? To pick consistently we need to know who can do the job. Although, going with that line of thinking, Martin would then be the logical choice but again, age and the fact he's become more innocuous has become the tipping point for mine. The queue for 4th/5th/6th backup seamer needs to be nailed down to some extent, by seeing whats what. We just need to look to Australia to see what headaches arise (though theirs are good, I guess) about which seamer to pick when one of the main attack goes down, especially when the candidates haven't played very many Tests.
I'm really keen to see how Wagner goes. He's only been given two Tests and some have already written him off to an extent. You just need to look at some of the players knocking around the other camps (like Steyn) to see that players can come right eventually. There's a big difference between being out of your depth and not yet finding your feet, and I think Wagner will do that, given the chance.

Have to feel for Munro, too. Wasn't going to play but for an injury to someone, and now he'll be going in at 7. Intelligent people will know that if he fails it doesn't matter too much for his career (imo, anyway), but there will probably be a few who could point to one match as to why he's not good enough. I hope he gets a decent outing so we can figure that out for sure. At least at 7 he won't be in against a new ball. Theoretically, anyway...