**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

[wellAlbidarned]

You don't have to be a great player to be under-rated though. In fact you can be an absolutely awful player and still be under-rated if the general consensus of you is that of an even more vile player than you actually are.

Franklin was a good Test bowler for a period. That is being forgotten by many because of what the second half of his career has been like. Not by you, probably not even by too many New Zealanders on CW, but by a lot of semi-serious cricket fans and probably even serious ones from other countries as well. I'm not saying the he was ever world class or that he should go down as a great bowler for sustaining good bowling for ~ 20 Tests, but that doesn't mean he isn't under-rated. The longer this batting allrounder experiment goes on well after he's lost his bowling completely, the more under-rated his early bowling will get, as a lot of people will just remember him for this.

I see where you're coming from but I guess I just don't really see it as an injustice that he isn't really rated or even noted by many cricket fans. So many bowlers with career trajectories like his have come and gone and they're all remembered fondly by fans of their country but no-one else, which is fair enough in my view.

 

[Mike5181]

Erm, dominated the Plunket Shield? He's only played in 2 games so far this season, and while he bowled well (in parts), I'd hardly call that dominating the comp.

Dominated when he played then. 11 wickets @ 16, with an ER of 2.8 is quality.

 

[Bahnz]

Has dominated with the bat too, average of 67.50 at a strike rate of 65 is quality. Should get him in the team in place of Guptill. Actually tbh he couldn't do any worse.

 

[Immenso]

Cricket, Black Caps: Batsmen Cop Friendly Fire In... | Stuff.co.nz



Are there many PS games before the England test series starts?

Yes, sensible domestic calender this hear. PS starts again on 24th Jan. He could theoretically play 5 games before the first test. Or more likely play 2 games before the first T20 on the 9th Feb, or probably even more likely play 0 games so that he is 'refreshed' ....... and then go to Derbyshire in the winter

 

[Mike5181]

Has dominated with the bat too, average of 67.50 at a strike rate of 65 is quality. Should get him in the team in place of Guptill. Actually tbh he couldn't do any worse.

I really don't think he's a bad option at all for what is essentially the fifth seamers spot behind Southee, Boult, Bracewell, and Wagner. I'd like to know who you would rather have there?

 

[ohnoitsyou]

NZ domestic batsmen? It's not like scoring runs against NZ first-class bowlers is a good indication of whether they would score runs in internationals either. We just have to live with what we have to judge players on. Cachopa scoring a few centuries against our domestic attacks isn't going to scare Steyn, Philander, and Morkel either. The batsmen we have at the moment have done the same thing, and they were recently bowled out for 45. It's not like we can pick bowlers that have had success at test level for that reserve spot, unless you want to pick a 38 year old. Love it or hate it, Milne's definitely among the top bowlers in the country that have yet to be picked for the test squad. Matt Henry, and Ben Wheeler would be the others.

Its more the way bowlers take wickets that is important. For example if Milne is taking wickets by beating batsmen for pace he might run through most domestic teams and teams such as Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. However if he played England/Australia/South Africa he would find the opposition would have no problem for his pace and he would struggle to take any wickets. Arnel is a good proof of this theory.
Conversely if Milne was taking his wickets by a combination of swing/pace/seam and hitting good line and lengths, then he would bowl fine against those said nations.
Same with batsmen, some might smash our domestic bowlers all over the park, but when they come up against international bowlers, they get ripped-apart because their technique isn't up to it.
Imo you judge a player on a combination of technique and performance, before Milne makes the squad he needs to settle into a consistent line and length alongside at least a nibble of swing or seam

 

[Briony]

Its more the way bowlers take wickets that is important. For example if Milne is taking wickets by beating batsmen for pace he might run through most domestic teams and teams such as Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. However if he played England/Australia/South Africa he would find the opposition would have no problem for his pace and he would struggle to take any wickets. Arnel is a good proof of this theory.
Conversely if Milne was taking his wickets by a combination of swing/pace/seam and hitting good line and lengths, then he would bowl fine against those said nations.
Same with batsmen, some might smash our domestic bowlers all over the park, but when they come up against international bowlers, they get ripped-apart because their technique isn't up to it.
Imo you judge a player on a combination of technique and performance, before Milne makes the squad he needs to settle into a consistent line and length alongside at least a nibble of swing or seam

Exactly, that's why good selectors read beyond the stats. The main thing they have to consider is whether or not the player's performances would translate to the next level.

 

[Bahnz]

I really don't think he's a bad option at all for what is essentially the fifth seamers spot behind Southee, Boult, Bracewell, and Wagner. I'd like to know who you would rather have there?

Gillespie an obvious option ahead of Milne when he's fit (and frankly, possibly ahead of Bracewell). But I don't see the point of including a backup 5th fast bowler, and would rather include an allrounder like Neesham

 

[NZTailender]

Batsmen who score lots of runs in the Plunkett Shield should be discounted because they're facing domestic bowlers. Similarly, bowlers who take lots of wickets should be discounted because they're bowling to domestic batsmen.

The best team we can pick is empty.

 

[Howsie]

Yes, sensible domestic calender this hear. PS starts again on 24th Jan. He could theoretically play 5 games before the first test. Or more likely play 2 games before the first T20 on the 9th Feb, or probably even more likely play 0 games so that he is 'refreshed' ....... and then go to Derbyshire in the winter

More in regards to Flynn

I don't have a problem with Flynn opening, heck I think he's probably New Zealand's best option. But he has to be given a decent crack, meaning.

He's able to get a few PS games in before the series starts (obvs looks likely) and he's given a proper run, i.e this can't just be a series thing.

 

[Kippax]

Adam Milne, Pre-Xmas Plunket Wickets - YouTube

Maroon helmet, maroon helmet...yeah 0:39, Milne followed up that good Sanga ODI wicket with the Rutherford and Bracewell wickets which looked quite promising.

 

[NZTailender]

40-45sec-ish area is ***y. Also, I've always been keen to see a bowler of whom I have a similar bowling action. Turns out it's Milne.

Sorry Wheeler, Milne makes it into the sig...

 

[SeamUp]

Official : Vern out ; Rory in

 

[Briony]

Official : Vern out ; Rory in

NZ won't be crying about that. Philander seems to miss a test most series.

 

[Marius]

My prediction for the next Test - Amla to score 2000* and Steyn to take 15 wickets for 11.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

South Africa's record in the last two Tests that Vern has missed due to injury -
Lost comfortably to Sri Lanka at home.
Just about held on to a draw against all odds in Adelaide.

Not exactly inspiring. It's not just Vernon's wickets we'll miss but also how he enables Steyn and Morkel to pick up wickets at the other end by restricting scoring/playing with the batsman's judgement of his off-stump. South Africa should still win but it's going to be tougher now.

 

[BeeGee]

South Africa's record in the last two Tests that Vern has missed due to injury -
Lost comfortably to Sri Lanka at home.
Just about held on to a draw against all odds in Adelaide.

Not exactly inspiring. It's not just Vernon's wickets we'll miss but also how he enables Steyn and Morkel to pick up wickets at the other end by restricting scoring/playing with the batsman's judgement of his off-stump. South Africa should still win but it's going to be tougher now.

Even with SA's star studded lineup, that's a big blow.

I expect NZ to put up a better showing this time, but I still can't see them winning it.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

I am hoping Elgar is dropped for the Pakistan series. He has looked incredibly ordinary in all the ODI matches in England, the single Test in Perth and now at home against a pretty average Kiwi bowling attack. I don't want to see Rudolph replace him either. It will be quite interesting to see who gets picked if Elgar is indeed dropped.

 

[TT Boy]

South Africa's record in the last two Tests that Vern has missed due to injury -
Lost comfortably to Sri Lanka at home.
Just about held on to a draw against all odds in Adelaide.

Not exactly inspiring. It's not just Vernon's wickets we'll miss but also how he enables Steyn and Morkel to pick up wickets at the other end by restricting scoring/playing with the batsman's judgement of his off-stump. South Africa should still win but it's going to be tougher now.

Huge blow. South Africa hasn’t won a test in PE since 2000 as well. Kiwis win the toss and bowl first they have a chance.
Think South Africa should have called up a Warriors seamer, someone with home knowledge be it the swinger Birch or that new guy, Ayabulela Gqamane. Expect Morne to get carried away and bowl the wrong the length.

 

[TT Boy]

I am hoping Elgar is dropped for the Pakistan series. He has looked incredibly ordinary in all the ODI matches in England, the single Test in Perth and now at home against a pretty average Kiwi bowling attack. I don't want to see Rudolph replace him either. It will be quite interesting to see who gets picked if Elgar is indeed dropped.

Yeah, the England series showed he was out of his depth. I first saw him some years back and commented here he was very limited but there is no way he will score sufficient runs against either Pak's seamers or their spinners. Rudolph doesn't warrant a recall however, so I would get McKenzie in for the series. He can play spin and South Africa need that for Pakistan.