***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[Flem274*]

Agree with Perm here. Patel can bat for a start, quite the batsman IMO.

 

[Athlai]

Why's that? The batting should be fine, Vettori at #8 is long enough.

I was meaning more for the bowling side of things, without Franklin I feel if SA somehow did manage to play well against Patel (and Vettori) we would be in real trouble with only Bond as an attacking bowler. A relatively inexperienced attack with two spinners? Risky.

Martin I would feel less nervous with TBH, Bond Martin Patel Vettori?

 

[Flem274*]

I was meaning more for the bowling side of things, without Franklin I feel if SA somehow did manage to play well against Patel (and Vettori) we would be in real trouble with only Bond as an attacking bowler. A relatively inexperienced attack with two spinners? Risky.

Martin I would feel less nervous with TBH, Bond Martin Patel Vettori?

If the pitches are slow enough to be worthy of two spinners then Martin will get clobbered regardless. Personally think we've seen all that he's capable of. Greentop bully. Bring in Gillespie.

 

[Athlai]

If the pitches are slow enough to be worthy of two spinners then Martin will get clobbered regardless. Personally think we've seen all that he's capable of. Greentop bully. Bring in Gillespie.

Or a 5th bowler.

Franklins injury gets more upsetting the more I think about it. He's a real test all rounder just like Vettori make our tail rather formidable, while opening up extra bowling options. Ah well.

We'll see, I would love to see Patel play though.

 

[Perm]

Agree with Perm here. Patel can bat for a start, quite the batsman IMO.

Not really, he's fairly useless TBH. Knows what end to hold, is about all.

 

[Flem274*]

Or a 5th bowler.

Franklins injury gets more upsetting the more I think about it. He's a real test all rounder just like Vettori make our tail rather formidable, while opening up extra bowling options. Ah well.

We'll see, I would love to see Patel play though.

The thing is, when jimmy comes back from his action remodelling (I bet thats where he is) he's either going to be way better or dire.

We don't have another allrounder that can take wickets. Orams form on the whole isn't working.

 

[Flem274*]

Not really, he's fairly useless TBH. Knows what end to hold, is about all.

I wasn't being serious Perm

 

[Athlai]

His 34 from 38 was one of my favourite cricketing knocks though, love watching number 11's really trying with the bat.

But he's no more than a number 10-11 really.

I'd love it if Franklin came back with a little more pace. I really hope this tweaking doesn't harm his effectiveness.

 

[Flem274*]

His 34 from 38 was one of my favourite cricketing knocks though, love watching number 11's really trying with the bat.

But he's no more than a number 10-11 really.

I'd love it if Franklin came back with a little more pace. I really hope this tweaking doesn't harm his effectiveness.

If it does I think it'l be the last straw for me. I'll pull a couple of my Daleks from invading Heaths dictatorship and set them on Braces.

 

[Athlai]

He wouldn't know what hit him.

(Knights of Cydonia just popped on, strikes me as a very Heath song.)

 

[Flem274*]

He wouldn't know what hit him.

(Knights of Cydonia just popped on, strikes me as a very Heath song.)

Love the inclusion of R2-D2

Oh I can see it now:

Bracewell: "Right gentlemen, for my next plan, Mark Gillespie will now open the batting to increase our strike rate, any comments?"

Daleks roll into the room

Bracewell"What are you, are you my new openers?"

Daleks"You will be exterrrminated"

Bracewell gets exterminated, players cheer and sing to their victory song "We Are The Champions" very loudly

 

[Perm]

I was meaning more for the bowling side of things, without Franklin I feel if SA somehow did manage to play well against Patel (and Vettori) we would be in real trouble with only Bond as an attacking bowler. A relatively inexperienced attack with two spinners? Risky.

Martin I would feel less nervous with TBH, Bond Martin Patel Vettori?

I somehow can't see South Africa doing that well against us, if Bond plays. They've only got the one left-hander at the top of their order (Graeme Smith), which should suit them, and Ashwell Prince is the only other left-handed batsman in their team, so that should nullify Bond somewhat.

As a whole I don't think they are exceptionally good players of spin, but they are aggressive, guys like Gibbs, de Villiers, Boucher and Pollock will look to get after Vettori and Patel, if he plays, and we should be able to use our varieties to take wickets, whereas we will be less effective against Kallis, Prince and Amla.

 

[Bahnz]

Pretty unsurprising squad all round. Glad to see they've dumped Sinclair. He promised much but after 8 years of underachieving and rubbish performances, he really doesn't deserve a spot, now or ever. It is a bit of a disgrace that Mason got selected, mind you he'll only play if there's an injury crisis, and if there is we'll be stuffed anyway.

Our bowling is very thin without Franklin, and to be honest, the news I've heard of him reworking his bowling action doesn't thrill me at all. But apparently Vaughan Johnson is part of the project, and he's always had a habit of getting the best out of Jimmy, so we'll just have to wait and see. We really will need him for when England come touring next year though, and I would've preferred it if he'd played in this series just to get used to test cricket again. If he does have a serious knee injury then that's a massive worry. But it wouldn't surprise given the health record of our recent best.

Without Franklin, Mills should make his return, and the rest of the team more or less picks itself. The pitches in SA at this time of year are normally green tops, so that rules Patel out. The only question is whether to give Taylor a taste of test cricket, or to give Fulton another go. I'm always willing to give a youngster a chance, and I think Fulton's a one trick pony who's better suited to ODI's. But Fulton's FC record is more convincing, and Taylor does have plenty of time on his hands.

Papps
Cumming
Fleming
Taylor/Fulton
Styris
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Bond
Martin

Sigh...that middle order doesn't fill me with confidence. Mind you, neither does the top order... or really anyone besides Fleming or Vettori. Might be time for Macca to make a return to the test team, if he keeps succeeding in the shorter form of the game and first class cricket.

 

[aussie]

whats up with Tuffey these days?

 

[Flem274*]

Pretty unsurprising squad all round. Glad to see they've dumped Sinclair. He promised much but after 8 years of underachieving and rubbish performances, he really doesn't deserve a spot, now or ever. It is a bit of a disgrace that Mason got selected, mind you he'll only play if there's an injury crisis, and if there is we'll be stuffed anyway.

Our bowling is very thin without Franklin, and to be honest, the news I've heard of him reworking his bowling action doesn't thrill me at all. But apparently Vaughan Johnson is part of the project, and he's always had a habit of getting the best out of Jimmy, so we'll just have to wait and see. We really will need him for when England come touring next year though, and I would've preferred it if he'd played in this series just to get used to test cricket again. If he does have a serious knee injury then that's a massive worry. But it wouldn't surprise given the health record of our recent best.

Without Franklin, Mills should make his return, and the rest of the team more or less picks itself. The pitches in SA at this time of year are normally green tops, so that rules Patel out. The only question is whether to give Taylor a taste of test cricket, or to give Fulton another go. I'm always willing to give a youngster a chance, and I think Fulton's a one trick pony who's better suited to ODI's. But Fulton's FC record is more convincing, and Taylor does have plenty of time on his hands.

Papps
Cumming
Fleming
Taylor/Fulton
Styris
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Bond
Martin

Sigh...that middle order doesn't fill me with confidence. Mind you, neither does the top order... or really anyone besides Fleming or Vettori. Might be time for Macca to make a return to the test team, if he keeps succeeding in the shorter form of the game and first class cricket.

Explain how 8 years of being misused and screwed around with is underachieving?

 

[Flem274*]

whats up with Tuffey these days?

Injury and horrible form

 

[Matt52]

It just seems like a completely average team... We'll be lucky not to be slaughtered.

As for the opening situation, maybe some middle order players in domestic cricket who arent going to make the middle order for the test team should try opening at domestic level for a few seasons and see how it goes..like Richardson did..

Rob Nicol always seemed like an opener in the middle order. Maybe he should try opening for Auckland for a while,....

Redmond could try for Otago,,..

Just maybe two or three reasonably talented players around the country, giving opening a go at domestic level to learn the trade,,, if thesee guys arent going to make the nz middle order then what have we lost..

 

[Bahnz]

Explain how 8 years of being misused and screwed around with is underachieving?

That's a poor excuse. He had decent stints as an opener, a no.3 and a no.4. He failed in all positions. The only country he's consistently achieved against is Bangladesh. Were it not for 2 innings, both scored against dire opposition with virtually nothing in between, people would never have bothered with pursuing him as long as they have. A massive underachiever, and strangely overhyped on these boards. Glad to see the back of him.

 

[slugger]

Here are some records that Mathew Sinclair has set:
Mathew is the highest scoring New Zealander against Pakistan with his 204 not out last summer.

He has the highest score of a New Zealand number 3 on debut

He has Highest New Zealand score on debut and fifth person for New Zealand to get over 100 on debut.

He was the second New Zealander to get two double centuries for New Zealand in test matches.

He was the eighth New Zealander to get 200 in a test innings.

Mathew is the the highest scoring Australian born batsman on debut in the history of the game.

His debut record is the second highest ever by any batsman in the history of the game in the world.

He has the highest test score by a New Zealander against South Africa ever.

He has the highest one day average of all the NZ Black Cap batsmen for the 2000/2001 season (his average was 49.66.)

Mathew is only one of five Test batsmen in the history of the game , whose first three Test Centuries were greater than 150.(there are no Australians in that 5 although Bob Simpson came very close. )

Mathew has 10 first class centuries. 7 of these are of 150 runs or more.

Mathew has just become the first player in the history of English League cricket to score 1000 runs before the end of June.

 

[Bahnz]

Here are some records that Mathew Sinclair has set:
Mathew is the highest scoring New Zealander against Pakistan with his 204 not out last summer.

He has the highest score of a New Zealand number 3 on debut

He has Highest New Zealand score on debut and fifth person for New Zealand to get over 100 on debut.

He was the second New Zealander to get two double centuries for New Zealand in test matches.

He was the eighth New Zealander to get 200 in a test innings.

Mathew is the the highest scoring Australian born batsman on debut in the history of the game.

His debut record is the second highest ever by any batsman in the history of the game in the world.

He has the highest test score by a New Zealander against South Africa ever.

He has the highest one day average of all the NZ Black Cap batsmen for the 2000/2001 season (his average was 49.66.)

Mathew is only one of five Test batsmen in the history of the game , whose first three Test Centuries were greater than 150.(there are no Australians in that 5 although Bob Simpson came very close. )

Mathew has 10 first class centuries. 7 of these are of 150 runs or more.

Mathew has just become the first player in the history of English League cricket to score 1000 runs before the end of June.

You seem to be putting an awful heavy emphasis on what he did in his first few matches... his double century against the west indies, his 150 against SA his 204 against pakistan. Could that possibly be because he hasn't done anything of note in the last 6 years? Since his last century, his highest score has been 74 against a dispirited South African bowling attack at Wellington. His average against Australia is 13. Against Sri Lanka its 14. If you remove his double century against pakistan, which was scored on the flattest of tracks (in the same match Saqlain Mushtaq scored an unbeaten century for goodness sake), then his average against them falls to 20. Of the top test nations, he has only really achieved against South Africa, again relying heavily on his 150 to prop up his average. You also curiously forget to consider Sinclair's shocking inconsistency in those early years. While he did score 3 centuries in his first 12 tests, his next highest score was 44 against Zimbabwe. In spite of those high scores, his average continued to slip into the high 30's. As for his performances in English League Cricket, we all know the standard there is rubbish, which is why most top level players don't bother getting involved with it, and play in the higher standard (and higher paid) County Cricket.

I would never deny that Sinclair didn't have potential, but he's always promised much and delivered little. He'd come in, maybe score a decent knock, and then follow it with a string of low scores. A number 3 batsman needs to show consistency perhaps more than any other player in the team, to prevent an onset of early wickets. Sinclair has never really done anything. In any of his nearly 30 test matches, has he ever played an innings that's had an impact on the outcome of the match? His double hundred against Pakistan came in the dullest of dull draws. His double hundred against the west indies came against a side that would have been easily beaten anyway. Only his 150 against South Africa came in the face of any real difficulty, and that remains far and away his best ever innings. But it was a long time ago now, and it's years since he's played even close to that level in a Black Cap. A lot of people make excuses for him and say he hasn't been given the opportunities. He's been given plenty. His original double century secured him a place in the New Zealand side for the next 3 years, I period where he continued to disappoint with brief moments of excellence scattered between lengthy patches of dreadful form. He was eventually dropped after poor performances against Australia and Bangladesh in 2002. He was ushered back into the test side in 2003, and given some opportunities in ODI cricket, but failed at both. He was unfortunate not to make the England tour in 2004, after a solid 70 against South Africa, but was brought back into the side immediatley afterwards, and rewarded the selectors with miserable form against Bangladesh and Australia. He failed again, in his most recent series against Sri Lanka, with a couple of starts and a couple of complete failures. He's been given plenty of opportunities. He just hasn't taken them.