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*Official* New Zealand in Pakistan

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Tim said:
I don't think Richard Jones is going to do NZ any favours in this match, he can occupy the crease but he can't accelerate his scoring quickly enough for international one dayers.
He may not do them any favours in this match, but since the result looks fairly certain, would it not be good for him to get a taste of facing International bowling?

Not sure how close he would be to a Test place, but would it not help NZ if he batted through for say 80 or 90?

Hypothetical though, since he's already out! D'oh!
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well thank god Hamish Marshall did everyone a favour & run out Sinclair. Sinclair was absolutely useless considering the situation..32 off about 60 balls is far too slow.

And what does Ashley Ross do? he decides to rub it into the NZ fans further by sending out Chris Harris!??
NZ seem to be wanting to lose this match the slow way...bring on the home season & the end of Ashley Ross, sometimes I think some of his tactics have actually shot NZ in the foot.
 

southern man

U19 Cricketer
brillant work Ash ross, lets send out one of our slowest batsmen when we need 8 an over.
Does he not know that 2 of our biggest hitters are next why not one of those 2?
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well maybe even Brendon McCullum would have been worth a shot at this stage..allow him to play a few overs out & then have a go.

With Harris you just know he'll clog up about 10 overs, then try & launch but get out..it's a total waste of time & a poor example to the new players on this tour.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well no surprise...Harris spoons one straight to Sami..but apparently it hit the ground just before he took it.

Why the hell are NZ giving Harris a run in the middle when they should be letting the future players have a go? it makes no sense..Its obvious that NZ have given up the ghost on this match so sending out a batsman who has absolutely no intention of scoring quickly is a poor advertisement for the game & further making this match a yawn.
 

nibbs

International Captain
Is Harris more concerned with winning the game or his average. I'm starting to think the latter
 

nibbs

International Captain
pushing the ball around at this stage is stupid. We need 11+ an over yet harris continues to jack off all around the pitch. What does he plan to achieve. He always makes me so angry...

Drop him I say
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
If Ross and whoever else decided that Harris needed time out in the middle then that's an absolute joke.
This tour should be about giving 2nd tier players as much time against international opposition as possible & allowing Harris to come up the order & play his usual scratchy innings really annoys me.
 

PY

International Coach
Sorry guys, I'm not watching it obviously but it seems if Cairns was in the other end then Harris would be doing exactly the right thing. Needs someone to rotate the strike as well as hit lusty blows.
 

nibbs

International Captain
Tim said:
If Ross and whoever else decided that Harris needed time out in the middle then that's an absolute joke.
This tour should be about giving 2nd tier players as much time against international opposition as possible & allowing Harris to come up the order & play his usual scratchy innings really annoys me.
The selections for this tour were stupid IMO. Walmsley, Mason??? Walmsley is 30 and Mason is pushing 30. Here's a good chance to blood some youngsters, but no...dammit
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well from what I can gather 3 or 4 players declined to go, so thats why there were some rather surprising choices like Walmsley & Marshall.

Although Marshall has justified selection.
 

nibbs

International Captain
Tim said:
Well from what I can gather 3 or 4 players declined to go, so thats why there were some rather surprising choices like Walmsley & Marshall.

Although Marshall has justified selection.
fo sho.

He played one Test Match against the Yarpies. He made 40* and then we heard nothing of him afterwards. WHY?
 

anzac

International Debutant
Tim said:
I agree, if we're starting to talk about 7th bowling options we're going around in circles again in terms of trying to avoid a side full of all-rounders.
What we want are say 2 quicks (Bond & ?), 1 seamer (Tuffey), Vettori & maybe an Astle or Styris to fill up the gaps.
Some ppl may say Oram should be added to that list..well yeah, but they can't play Oram & Cairns together IMO..Oram needs to become more consistent with the bat before that can happen.
hang on a minute guys - you should know by now that I have been very outspoken re the number of so called 'allrounders' in the ODI squads to think that I was suggesting that we have Cairns as a 7th bowling option in the team - I was trying to make the point that I rate him as about the 7th bowling option in the squad!!!

As I said IMO he is not bowling well enough to be considered any higher than that & that is not good enough for him to make the starting team in my book. Yes Oram is not consistant enough with the bat, but neither in Cairns. As I see it Oram is the 'allrounder' and I don't have a place for Cairns or Harris, as he is generally more econimical in the middle overs, and neither Harris nor Cairns can be considered as strike bowlers capable of bowling at the death.

IMO we have too many bowlers who can only bowl in the opening 2 3rds of the game.

As I see it unless their form improves dramatically then I would anticipate that this could be their last overseas tour if Bracewell backs up his words (they might get a last hurrar in the upcoming Home series v Pak & RSA, but should not hold down a starting spot for either of them).

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
nibblet said:
The selections for this tour were stupid IMO. Walmsley, Mason??? Walmsley is 30 and Mason is pushing 30. Here's a good chance to blood some youngsters, but no...dammit
I think it was a question of who was available, who had 'experience' & who had form. I think the last thing the selectors should have done was to have selected a team full of youngsters on debut, either batsmen or bowlers, unless they were in very, very good form. Touring the sub continent was always going to be hard enough against the Pakistani pace attack & batting strips, let alone to be some youngster and have your confidence shattered. However they could have taken a young seamer to gain squad experience but maybe not playing time. So far as the batting goes Marshall still qualifies as a youngster in my book as he is still under 25.

NZ has a history of taking talented youngsters and selecting them in a different form of the game, playing them out of place or throwing them in at the deep end in a sink or swim situation. IMO we have 'lost' some potentially very good players to this - some of which are young enough to hopefully make it back, Marshall being one of them.

Mason was a gimmie to be selected considering he has been selected as the back up seamer for the last couple of ODI series since India's tour to NZ prior to the WC (please note that this does not mean that I neccessarily agree with his selection re his age, just an acknowledgement that he was playing well at the time & as such had done nothing wrong since then).

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
well where do I start......Pakistan confirms what we all thought would be the story of this tour - too strong in all departments in local conditions.

Another toss won and the story is to bat first. Another mamoth opening partnership against this bowling attack with no penetration, followed by an all out assualt by their allrounders (note that I consider them to be proper all rounders & not 'allrounders' as in the NZ squad) against an attack that can not contain 'at the death'. It would be a sorry stat to see just how costly the last 10 overs are to NZ & not just on this tour!

This is then followed by an opening bowling attack of genuine pace & accuracy that rips thru the top order, or at least makes scoring so difficult that they can force the false strokes & get quick wickets from the middle overs on.
 

anzac

International Debutant
Can I say that IMO the NZ brains trust on this tour have failed miserably. Yes they were on a hiding to nothing given their squad situation, but IMO they have not only failed to try to address the major positional / tactical concerns, but have also failed regarding their match day gameplans.

Yet again we see another wholesale change for the bowling lineup back to virtually the same 'attack' that failed in the opening match. Only Cairns & Vettori have remained for the 3 matches so far & Cairns has yet to provide anything with the ball. No consistency regarding selection of players nor a rotation of the pairing of bowlers. Eg Mason & Walmsley have yet to bowl with Tuffey or Canning to see what their 'balance' is like.

While I applaud the selectors on the one hand for not jerking the top order around, I do not think that not changing the top 4 for the 3 matches so far has actually solved anything. McCullum could have been used as an opener with Cumming to look at another option, as Jones' scoring rate is too slow for ODIs.

It is incredible that we have not seen the kind of experimentation carried on with the batting lineup in the regular squad, just when the situation requires it to address the issues raised by their earlier experimentations (from memory Fleming had 3 or 4 different opening partners in the WC)!!!! Canning & Walker are supposedly handy with the bat and are potential 'allrounders' in competition for regular spots with the likes of Cairns, Oram, Adams & Harris, but have had little opportunity in the 3 matches so far.

In regard to their 'gameplans' they are not making any inroads regarding the final 10 overs for a start, either by changing the bowlers or by type of delivery to be bowled. Admittedly I have not seen any coverage of any of the games but the match reports indicate more of the same in each match. Have they tried McGrath's tactic of bowling low full toss outside off stump - or perhaps none of the bowlers used have the control / accuracy to do so without being 'wided' - if so time to look at someone else!!!

Similarly the run chase tactics in this last game have been questionable (the 2nd match does not count as there was no chase thanks to Sami). While I may understand their wanting to rebuild the innings & perhaps conserve wickets with Sinclair & Marshall, some direction needed to be given regarding their run rate & targets etc. Furthermore the chase needed a definative acceleration once Sinclair was dismissed if they were to have any chance at all.

Cairns is supposedly the game breaker for this team & has done so b4 (as per his century v RSA in the VB series where he came in at an earlier stage, or as in NZs ICC Trophy victory v India). I would have thought this situation to have been tailored for him to be an ideal scenario for his batting heroics ('coz he can't bowl anymore), but instead the selectors persisted with their tactic of promoting Harris - who can no longer be considered a player to accelerate a run chase from the start of his innings. Harris may have been a more viable option at only 3 down if the run rate required was only around 5 & with more than a third of the match to go. As it was Harris' run rate was not that bad and he did make a reasonable score, but it was not what was required for the team effort in the context of the match! Mr Bracewll please take note as we will remind you of your oft quoted comments re your future selections & tactics!!!! As a consequence further overs were lost as the 'hitters' & 'allrounder' in Cairns, McCullum & Walker sat on the sidelines until it was too late.

A **** weak effort for which Ross & Cairns need to take the majority of the blame, but so should Harris as he should know the requirements better than anyone with the number of games he has played. Quite frankly IMO Carins & Harris are there only because of their experience & not on current form following the TVS Cup!

I some how doubt the situation would have been the same had Fleming been on ground - rather go down in a blaze trying to make something happen & be bowled out inside 40 overs, rather than miander to 50 overs & still have wickets in hand & be 50 runs short!!!

:!(
 

anzac

International Debutant
Now for the final part of my comments following this mis- match.....the NZ player 'performance'.

Jones confirms that he is better suited to the longer game, and Cumming is finding it tough against the pace of the Pakistani attack particularly when chasing. It is hoped that he will get further opportunities to set the pace & show what he is capable of, as in the 2 matches when batting 2nd the top order has failed in both their objectives of seeing off the opening attack & scoring runs.

Sinclair has also reverted to type and gone back into his shell having been exposed early - from comments made his footwork worries do not seem to have been rectified.

Marshall came into the squad as the batsman with the biggest question mark over his selection, and yet has established himself as the only batsman to put his hand up to date! Fair enough he was able to secure his maiden ODI ton by some generous Pakistani bowling selections in the final overs, but he has now scored 170+ runs in his maiden 3 ODI innings batting away from Home at 4 with only 1 dismissal against the likes of Ahktar, Sami, Kaneria & Razzaq!!! It makes a mockery of his domestic form and should open the door for other such players to be considered for selection - brother James????

On the down side Marshall's form actually creates more problems for the selectors than it solves, as his success at 4 does nothing to address the opener issue, with NZ already having an established & capable middle order from Astle at 3 to McMillan at 5. Should Cumming not make the grade, then the selectors are faced with either leaving Marshall out (which would be a travesty at this stage), or to throw him in as opener (a similar mistake as he is not the 'explosive' player they seemingly want), or to perhaps promote McCullum or even Styris to make way for Marshall in the middle / lower order.

If they are thinking along the lines of McCullum as opener again then they need to start using him there now for the last 2 games of this tour. The only reason I put forward Styris' name is that IMO he has a better defence than McMillan against the newer ball, and also has a calmer head on his shoulders & can play his shots. My real preference would be to see Astle partner Fleming, with the rest of the batting stepping up the order & Marshall introduced at 5 to begin with to get established in the team, b4 perhaps being looked at at 3 or 4 depending on what the lower order & tail selections are.

Regarding Astle & opening I wonder which strategy fits in with Bracewell's theory regarding team performance, and if he subscribes to the Astle at 3 theory will he be willing to modify the 'quick start' openers strategy to play a less 'explosive' player such as Styris to make way for Marshall in the team at Vincent's expense????

Mason & Walmsley have thus far failed as an opening attack as well as at the death. Unless the bowling pairing / roles are changed & we see an improvement then I think both can forget about further selections. Mason in particular has been disappointing considering he has been a fringe player for some time & his recent work at the Chennai clinic on sub continent conditions.

Walker has the best figures for any bowler thus far, but can consider himself thankfull for that last over. Cairns & Harris have shown little with the ball considering their experience. The fact that their figures are no better than the rest IMO underlines how poorly they are bowling.

Little can be said for the rest of the squad with Oram, Tuffey, Canning & Hitchcock not playing. Oram has been the most economical, and Tuffey has had a poor game for his one appearance thus far. However his TVS Cup form was steady if not spectacular. It is hoped that both he & Oram have learnt from their sub continent experience so far as their bowling craft is concerned. Little can be learnt from the exposure of Canning & Hitchcock to date.

If the selectors are true to current form we should see Walker, Mason & Walmsley droped for the next match. Hopefully Harris will be included in this group to allow the above quartet to all play, although I would keep Walker & drop Cairns - but that would be too much to expect.

:)
 

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