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*Official* New Zealand in Pakistan

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
anzac said:
Cummings possibly showed enough to warrant his continued selection for the 1st ODI in the Home series, while Jones confirmed his style is better suited to the longer game.
B]


Eh....Cumming has scoreed no runs on this tour or did you forget about that?

Sinclair has no footwork and will continue to struggle in international cricket.

Jones technique is suspectible, with Richardson and Jones opening I would rather fall asleep.

Did you actually watch the match this time before making your criticisms?
 

anzac

International Debutant
marc71178 said:
7.6 for 25 overs is a lot easier than 8 for 30, and 10 for 20!
true - from memory when Hadlee came to the crease the rrr was above 8 & may have been approaching 9 as he got himself set. They then started playing 'normal' cricket but dispatched the bad deliveries to & over the fence to maintain it at 7.6 b4 launching in the last 10.

all I was saying is that it is not beyond the realms of possibility, but perhaps beyond reality when considering this team & their approach to the game...

:)
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
I reckon that New Zealand approached batting in the fifth game purely as preparation for the forthcoming test series.

Jones doesn't look that comfortable/capable in one-day mode, but I've a sneaking suspicion that you may have unearthed a bit of a right-handed John Wright for test matches.

Canning(?) the all-rounder looks a goodie too, but there's a few established players who must be looking over their shoulders with some alarm.

For Pakistan, Sami and Shoaib played half a series each, then throw in Inzy and Younis - I reckon it'll be as hard for the Kiwis at home.
 

anzac

International Debutant
THE MINGSTER said:
Eh....Cumming has scoreed no runs on this tour or did you forget about that?

Sinclair has no footwork and will continue to struggle in international cricket.

Jones technique is suspectible, with Richardson and Jones opening I would rather fall asleep.

Did you actually watch the match this time before making your criticisms?

Nope - can't watch what isn't being shown. Wasn't aware that that was a prerequisit to being able to make some comment or criticism. My views are based upon what I have read from match reports & other comments around the place, as well as what I understand of the game - doesn't mean that anyone has to agree.

So far as my criticism of the tactics regarding the maintaining of the batting order is concerned I don't believe you need to watch the match to make comment / criticism. It seems obvious from past experience that the potential partnerships in the top & middle orders (Jones, Cumming, Sinclair, Harris) were incapable of lifting the run rate to the target required. Only Marshall has shown the ability to stay at the crease & score runs at a decent strike rate, but even he has shown that he is not an explosive scorer who is likely to have a dramtic impact on the RRR. Those are players like McCullum, Cairns, Oram & potentially Canning.

The maintaining of the established batting order did not work in game 3, so why did they think it would do so under similar circumstances in game 5 when none of the lower order were in any form or had much time in the middle? Oram & McCullum had some limited form from the TVS Cup but none of the others.

Leaving the launch until the last 10 overs is fine if the RRR is not too oppressive. The fact that there were 3 avoidable run outs indicates a certain level of desperation, that perhaps could have been avoided by the early introduction of an 'impact' batsman. NZ have shown they were unaffraid to try this in the past with players such as Lance Cairns esp being promoted up the order to score quick runs the keep the RRR in check. Others have been used in variations of this role since then.

Further more it is considered to be a cardinal sin in Limited Overs cricket to bat out your overs in a run chase & still have wickets in hand if you are short of your target. The fact you may have gone helter skelter in the last 10 overs & lost a bunch of wickets means very little if the RRR was approaching double figures by that time. If you do not do something to address the RRR at some earlier stage of your innings you are already in a no win situation from as early as 20 - 30 overs out!!! The gist of my criticism is that they did not even appear to try to do anything different to actually win these games (3 & 5) in their run chase.

True Cumming has not set the batting wolrd alight, but considering the alternatives he appears to have shown enough temperament to be considered for the opening ODI at Home.
If he 'fails' then perhaps McIntosh will get his chance, unless the selectors change their strategy re Astle or the 'qick & early runs'. IMO he has been in the same situation as when Fleming has opened the innings - not enough runs being scored from the other end so has to try to do too much too early to meet the 'quick runs' strategy.

As much as I liked him when he first came onto the scene, Sinclair missed his opportunity on this series, much the same as Harris & Cairns IMO.

Comments re Jones indicate he has the right temperament / patience & stickability for the longer game. I am not advocating for him to open with Richardson, just that he appears to be a viable cover for the opening spot should Richardson or Vincent be injured etc, or even as no3 on a green top if required. Granted he & Richarsdon would not be pretty to watch, but it would be a fairly safe bet they would have a decent chance of seeing off the new ball.

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
luckyeddie said:
I reckon that New Zealand approached batting in the fifth game purely as preparation for the forthcoming test series.

Jones doesn't look that comfortable/capable in one-day mode, but I've a sneaking suspicion that you may have unearthed a bit of a right-handed John Wright for test matches.

Canning(?) the all-rounder looks a goodie too, but there's a few established players who must be looking over their shoulders with some alarm.

For Pakistan, Sami and Shoaib played half a series each, then throw in Inzy and Younis - I reckon it'll be as hard for the Kiwis at home.

quite possible that is the explanation for not having a go, but the reality is that the Test batting order is more established than that in the ODI team!

I've already commented re Jones, IMO Marshall is the more likely Test prospect - but where to play him???? I do not see Vincent being dropped on his current domestic form following on from the Tests in India.

For Canning to get his opportunity players such as Cairns & Harris would need to make way (as I do not think they will drop Oram re his bowling), then others such as Adams would come into contention ahead of Canning perhaps.

The NZ bowling will be strengthened by the availability of Butler re his 2nd Test form v India, let alone if Bond makes a recovery.

The Pakistani team will be strong, but I do not think they can expect the same level of opposition for the series in NZ.

For me...
Richardson
Vincent
Fleming / Marshall
Styris
Astle
McMillan
Hart
Oram
Vettori
Tuffey
Bond / Butler
with Jones, Adams & Canning as further cover.

:)
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
True Cumming has not set the batting wolrd alight, but considering the alternatives he appears to have shown enough temperament to be considered for the opening ODI at Home.

If he 'fails' then perhaps McIntosh will get his chance, unless the selectors change their strategy re Astle or the 'qick & early runs'. IMO he has been in the same situation as when Fleming has opened the innings - not enough runs being scored from the other end so has to try to do too much too early to meet the 'quick runs' strategy.
You see match reports don't tell you this. Cumming has looke clueless in the series so far against quality fast bowling.

Temperament? He's been worse than Jones thank god's sakes.

McIntosh has not done well in one-day cricket and has only had his success in the longer version of the game.
 

anzac

International Debutant
THE MINGSTER said:
You see match reports don't tell you this. Cumming has looke clueless in the series so far against quality fast bowling.

Temperament? He's been worse than Jones thank god's sakes.

McIntosh has not done well in one-day cricket and has only had his success in the longer version of the game.

I had read regarding the selection of this squad that Cumming's selection was considered a bit of a surprise ahead of McIntosh having been the top run scorer.....
 

anzac

International Debutant
I have just read that Astle & Bond are out for the Pakistan series.....

So I guess this is the opportunity for Marshall to get a start at 5 or 6, and Butler to start for Bond.

I see Wilson is showing good early season form with the ball & I presume he is back to bowling med / fast????? If so he could be a contender for squad selection re the 'allrounder' as much as Adams or Canning.....or even ahead of Butler?????
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
anzac said:
quite possible that is the explanation for not having a go, but the reality is that the Test batting order is more established than that in the ODI team!

I've already commented re Jones, IMO Marshall is the more likely Test prospect - but where to play him???? I do not see Vincent being dropped on his current domestic form following on from the Tests in India.

For Canning to get his opportunity players such as Cairns & Harris would need to make way (as I do not think they will drop Oram re his bowling), then others such as Adams would come into contention ahead of Canning perhaps.

The NZ bowling will be strengthened by the availability of Butler re his 2nd Test form v India, let alone if Bond makes a recovery.

The Pakistani team will be strong, but I do not think they can expect the same level of opposition for the series in NZ.

For me...
Richardson
Vincent
Fleming / Marshall
Styris
Astle
McMillan
Hart
Oram
Vettori
Tuffey
Bond / Butler
with Jones, Adams & Canning as further cover.

:)
Bond is definitely out of at least 2 more months and Hart as well. Fleming willl be available, he's playing on Friday for Wellington.

Astle is not even in the picture. Marshall will replace him.

Vincent will be in the side. And Cairns will probably bat at 6, so it can offer Fleming 5 bowling options.

My side would be: Richardson, Vincent, Fleming, Marshall, Styris, McMillan, McCullum, Oram, Vettori, Tuffey, Butler.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well from that series, really only Marshall stuck his hand up & said "pick me" & I think he'll be a shoe-in for the forth-coming ODI's in NZ & now maybe even the tests.

Sinclair pretty much confirmed that he'll never be any good unless he starts moving his feet..he has the type of attitude that will not get him anywhere with John Bracewell & unless he drastically improves, his international career could well be over.

Richard Jones is a solid opener, he worked hard against Shoaib but doesn't really know how to score runs fast enough..I think he's better off targeting test cricket where he may be ok.

Craig Cumming was extremely disappointing, it'll be interesting to see whether NZ stick with him now in the ODI's or opt for Jesse Ryder who I got the feeling was very close to be selected...im not sure he's the right option either.

I think Canning bounced back well from his poor ODI debut..he may have come out of this series better off than Matthew Walker. Paul Hitchcock & Daryl Tuffey were pretty much crap through the whole series, but then again if you're only bowling 125 km's you're likely to go for runs on those pitches.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
McIntosh scored 146 today for Auckland against Otago & Wilson bagged another 5 wickets.

He must be the leading wicket taker so far & his batting has been alright too so he could be in serious contention for the NZ team if he keeps it up.
 

masterblaster

International Captain
Im tremendously impressed with Imran Farhat and Yasir Hameed, they seem the batsman ready to take the mantle that Saeed Anwar and Ijaz Ahmed provided for so long.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't really know about Farhat, he looks alright..although decent bowling probably would have got the better of him.

Hameed looks exceptional to me...Umar & Hameed would be a very good opening pair.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Very impressive by Hamish Marshall.

With Fleming injuried I suspect he may get a chance in the Test team against Pakistan at home as a reward for his good ODI form.

I think it is about people like Hadlee had a word with Vincent and a few others and tell them to keep preforming as people like McIntosh is really is performing and my favourite to play against Pakistan.
 

Go_India

School Boy/Girl Captain
hi guys and gals(if any), i am back after a long time and i hope to prove my point....how is everyone???
 

anzac

International Debutant
THE MINGSTER said:
Bond is definitely out of at least 2 more months and Hart as well. Fleming willl be available, he's playing on Friday for Wellington.

Astle is not even in the picture. Marshall will replace him.

Vincent will be in the side. And Cairns will probably bat at 6, so it can offer Fleming 5 bowling options.

My side would be: Richardson, Vincent, Fleming, Marshall, Styris, McMillan, McCullum, Oram, Vettori, Tuffey, Butler.
Saw the report re Bond & Astle, good to see that Fleming is back in action & I wasn't aware Hart was out.

I agree with your team selection & hope to god that Cairns & Harris are not selected as IMO they would unbalance the team - let alone their lack of form!!!!

Fleming already has 5 bowling options in Butler, Tuffey, Vettori, Oram & Styris - I don't think a 4th seamer of right arm medium fast is going to strengthen the attack any.

Good to see that Vincent & Styris are scoring runs in the State Shield so far, & McIntosh keeps his name in front of the selectors, but I think H Marshall has the inside running. I'm also curious to see how James Marshall has been doing over the past couple of seasons & whether he has been selected for any 'A' teams etc - he had some pretty big scores to his credit & weren't the brothers named the players of the final in a loosing ND V Auckalnd last year??

I nominate Wilson as the 'sleeper' for the Test squad & right in contention for the ODI squad with Bond out. His ODI figures do not reflect the impact he had with bat & ball in that VB series when he was a youngster. I see he has a slight injury at the moment, but at 29 is no older than the other contenders in Mason & Co. The big plus is his batting as he is a contender IMO as an allrounder. He seems a bit like the other side of the coin from Styris, a better bowler but not quite the same standard batsman.

:)
 

THE MINGSTER

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
anzac said:
Saw the report re Bond & Astle, good to see that Fleming is back in action & I wasn't aware Hart was out.

I agree with your team selection & hope to god that Cairns & Harris are not selected as IMO they would unbalance the team - let alone their lack of form!!!!

Fleming already has 5 bowling options in Butler, Tuffey, Vettori, Oram & Styris - I don't think a 4th seamer of right arm medium fast is going to strengthen the attack any.

Good to see that Vincent & Styris are scoring runs in the State Shield so far, & McIntosh keeps his name in front of the selectors, but I think H Marshall has the inside running. I'm also curious to see how James Marshall has been doing over the past couple of seasons & whether he has been selected for any 'A' teams etc - he had some pretty big scores to his credit & weren't the brothers named the players of the final in a loosing ND V Auckalnd last year??

I nominate Wilson as the 'sleeper' for the Test squad & right in contention for the ODI squad with Bond out. His ODI figures do not reflect the impact he had with bat & ball in that VB series when he was a youngster. I see he has a slight injury at the moment, but at 29 is no older than the other contenders in Mason & Co. The big plus is his batting as he is a contender IMO as an allrounder. He seems a bit like the other side of the coin from Styris, a better bowler but not quite the same standard batsman.

:)
I'm sure Bond and Astle is out, but Hart and Fleming seem more likely to play. It would be harsh if Hart is dropped, seeing he has done nothing wrong in the Tests, and has been a gritty performer for us.

What the hell do you mean Harris in the Test side? Riiiiiight......

Hmmm.....Wilson is definitely going well, and bowling at a good clip mind you as well. Would he be able to fill that 3rd seamer role better than Oram? Don't take into account their batting just their bowling, because that is how they are going to get into the Test side.

I personally think Oram is a better ODI player, where his containing medium-fasts are extremely useful. But when it comes to Tests, he is nothing more than a medium pace bowler, who last season, just had to get it on the right spot and there comes a wicket. The wickets this season won't be the same, and will be much flatter and won't offer as much assistance to the bowlers. Wilson is more attacking in his bowling and reached speeds to upto 137km/h yesterday. All this talk about Wilson will never make it back bemuses me, as he has been the standout player so far in the State Championship.
 

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