*Official** New Zealand in England

[Kent]

Thing called a time-zone?

Ah, no smart-ass!

He was posting on other threads, and I hardly think 6 pm was his bed-time! I just wanted to know how much of Bond as a test bowler he'd actually seen before claiming he had pace and little else.

 

[Richard]

Why do you always say things like that to fit your ideals? Yes, his weakness is he doesn't move his feet, but his test batting average doesn't lie.

So you're taking a leaf (or two, in this post) out of marc's book as well as eddie's?
A Test batting average can lie, and Trescothick's does, because he has a very poor first-chance average. At The Oval, his record, first-chance, is superb - 4 Tests, 8 innings', 1 double-century, 3 half-centuries. He also scored 2 half-centuries when dropped on 7 and 1.
His weaknesses are not confined to the non-movement of feet, by any streatch of the imagination. His shot-selection is very poor and that's the main reason he fails.
Like it or not, it is true that Trescothick's record at The Oval is very good indeed.

 

[Richard]

genuine pace IS effective on just about any deck when you have the new ball and an opening batsman at the crease at the begining of his innings...........and you can control your line & length

pace ceases to be as much a factor when the batsman is set, the deck is flat and the ball is older - then you need to swing it etc........

A new-ball is only beneficial to a bowler if he can swing it.
I am not claiming I inequivocally know Bond cannot swing the red-ball, just that, new-ball or old, bowling at 95 mph won't make you any big threat unless you move it (and it is, of course, possible to swing a new and old ball).
Even extreme pace and good line and length isn't that deadly a weapon unless the ball's moving. If it is, of course, as we've seen from Shoaib at times, it is absolutely unplayable.

 

[Richard]

I certainly dont agree that Bond dosent swing the red ball , he swung it early on at Hobart on debut & he's seemed capable of swinging the new ball away from right handers just about everywhere to me.

But I think we should ignore what happened in New Zealand 'last season' as regards to judging a bowlers ability to move the ball / be effective at test level.
Ronnie Irani would've been a handful in those conditions , even after his knee problems.

Harmison would be a better example - Irani had proven many times to be a massive handful in conditions like those typical to the New Zealand-India series.
I entirely agree about your assesment that that series should be counted-out when considering the ability to move the ball off the pitch. Harmison could have done it. And Irani is far better at it than Harmison.

 

[Richard]

not having seen it my questions would be what type of delivery & at what stage of the game - was the batsman set & was the bowler in his opening spell etc.........

I still maintain that genuine pace IS effective on any pitch when the ball is new & at the begining of an innings when the batsmen are settling in to the pace of the wicket etc.............

any batsman at the start of his innings is going to be hurried up by a genuine quick delivery with a new ball unless he is a rich vein of form, or the bowler serves up ****e................

on a flat deck any advantage is soon lost & you still have to bowl a good line & length otherwise it becomes wasted..........and that's when you need the other skills to come into play........

In Knight's case (in fact, in BOTH Knight's cases, as he faced a 100mph-er from Lee a week later) he had faced about 20 balls tops in his innings.
Neither delivery swung and Knight had trouble with neither.
You are quite right that the new-ball should make any bowler of 90 mph very effective, on any wicket. But not every bowler is capable of making use of the new-ball.
You can make use of a new-ball at 75 mph, because swing does take the pitch out of the equation, and as we all know new-balls swing conventionally more than at any other time. But it's not the pace that's making the threat - it's the swing.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
If you're bowling at 90 mph, swinging and seaming the ball and spraying it all over the place you're still no use, as Ian Butler shows.
His debut series summed-up perfectly Craig's argument that a semblence, at least, of accuracy is a must for Test bowling. But without any movement it's no use.

 

[Richard]

Ah, no smart-ass!

He was posting on other threads, and I hardly think 6 pm was his bed-time! I just wanted to know how much of Bond as a test bowler he'd actually seen before claiming he had pace and little else.

Sadly my time was up.
Something Craig would know about and you would not.

 

[Richard]

I certainly dont agree that Bond dosent swing the red ball , he swung it early on at Hobart on debut & he's seemed capable of swinging the new ball away from right handers just about everywhere to me.

Clearly I am wrong about him not swinging the red-ball.
I have only ever seen highlights of the Tests at Bellerive and The WACA. So I am not as well placed to comment as some.
However this is that rare case of me simply attempting to find a reason for Bond's failure: as I say, I really don't think we can set much stall by the India series, and we certainly can't set any by the Bangladesh series.
It's notoriously hard to swing the ball in West Indies so if he's managed to do that there full credit to him.
If we get some nice overcast weather in England I'll have the chance to assess him properly.
If he has more like the West Indies series and less like the Australia and Sri Lanka ones I'll be perfectly happy to acknowledge Bond as a good Test bowler - but to class him as amongst the best in The World on the evidence, basically, of one series (in West Indies), which some have done, is quite frankly folly.

 

[Craig]

Or if NZ were playing at Headingly which they dont.

Overcast he would do well (Bond).

If Butler plays, he must bowl into the wind, he bowls well into it. In all likely hood, he may get taken to the cleaners.

 

[anzac]

can anyone shed some light on Bradley Scott from Otago?

I see he's 24, LFM and has only played a handful of games but he is currently sitting at the top of the wicket takers in both forms of the domestic comps - economy rate under 3 in FC & SR of 21 in the Shield.....

could he be a wildcard for consideration re the Nth v Sth or 'A' Teams with a view to England?????

how quick is he, does he swing the ball etc.......

 

[Tim]

Yeah I haven't seen him, but going by performances he'd have to be a chance for that Nth/Sth match.

 

[Dick Rockett]

These are my NZ teams for the tour. Obviously it's early to be picking them but it's all good fun! I think at the moment the agreed size of a touring squad is 14 players. That may have changed, not sure.

Tests:
Stephen Fleming
Nathan Astle
Shane Bond
Chris Cairns
Bruce Martin
Brendon McCullum
Craig McMillan
Jacob Oram
Michael Papps
Mark Richardson
Mathew Sinclair
Scott Styris
Daryl Tuffey
Daniel Vettori

ODIs: Take out Papps, Martin, Richardson & Sinclair. Replace them with Hamish Marshall, Matthew Walker, Kyle Mills, & Jeff Wilson.

I can't comment in detail on the composition of the England side as I'm not really familiar with their FC players/form.

I feel NZ will win this one. We have a very good side that was undone by one man in the Pakistan series. England have a solid batting lineup but their bowling looks either too raw or not of international standard. There are a few exceptions of course, ie Ashley Giles! :P

 

[Mingster]

Harmison would be a better example - Irani had proven many times to be a massive handful in conditions like those typical to the New Zealand-India series.

But the thing is, Bond never played in that India series and all the matches Bond has played, have not been on bowling friendly-friendly conditions at all.

As far as I can recall, the only time Bond has played in NZ, was that Bangladesh series where the pitches were of a high-standard.

This makes Bond's figures even more impressive.

 

[Dick Rockett]

But the thing is, Bond never played in that India series and all the matches Bond has played, have not been on bowling friendly-friendly conditions at all.

As far as I can recall, the only time Bond has played in NZ, was that Bangladesh series where the pitches were of a high-standard.

This makes Bond's figures even more impressive.

There was the India series last year, during which the pitches were diabolical. That said, Bondy was getting great movement through the air, and the pitch has nothing to do with that!

 

[PY]

We have a very good side that was undone by one man in the Pakistan series.

You'll hopefully be done by another one-man show too. Andy Caddick on return.......(crosses fingers).

 

[Dick Rockett]

You'll hopefully be done by another one-man show too. Andy Caddick on return.......(crosses fingers).

He's coming back? Doesn't anyone retire once and once only these days?

Good luck to the man, he seems to do well against NZ. Maybe it's because he comes from here....

 

[PY]

As far as I can gather, he hasn't made any statements about retiring yet.

He's crocked at the moment however he was in with a chance for WI but I'm hoping he gets a chance to get back into FC cricket in summer '04 and therefore stake a claim to get back in.

 

[Dick Rockett]

As it turns out he's only retired from ODIs.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

for keeper,I choose nevin over mcullum,and mcullum over hart.

But,for odis,Nevin would be first,and mcullum second.Hart is a VERY defensive batsmen,as you saw in the test series against West indies.

But he is good at supporting other batsmen,and mcullum is too.Mcullum supported cairns well in the 5th odi,except for that ball where cairns got run out! but mcullum is young and fast.

Nevin is easily the most aggresived of the 3,but mcullum showed he can hit in the 2nd odi NZ vs Pakistan (he got 56 off 51)

But Parores better than em all

:P

 

[PY]

Welcome to CW

 

[Mingster]

No not Nevin please. That's going backwards.