*Official** New Zealand in England

[Kent]

If Bond can't bowl in the vicinity of 145km +, then he shouldn't get special treatment from the selectors (aka. being selected when fully not fit).

It's hard to see Bond taking wickets if he doesn't have his greatest weapon - pace.

The problem is no-one really knows what his weapons will be from now on. His new action is supposed to mean he's less front-on, which could potentially mean the end of his inswing. It might also mean he gets outswing more often, which could make him a handful even if he's 10kph slower.

There are so many things that are yet to be proven it's impossible to make judgements on them IMO. All we can do is watch with a bit of patience.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

Craig, while I was in Christchurch 2 weeks ago I went and watched the 1st ODI out at Lincoln & Bond was bowling brisk medium pace. From what I can gather he will be able to return to fast bowling. He's just doing things caustiously at this stage.

thats good news,and I think hes doing the right thing.Starting slow (well,medium)then working his way up.

question is,will we ever see another middle stump knocked out of the ground courtesy of one of Bonds in - swingers?

time will tell I guess....

 

[badgerhair]

In Tests, the England batting is settled, but whom would you pick in ODI's? They don't have Butcher, Hussain had retired and Thorpe is not in the plans (for some strange reason), then you are left with Trescothick(?), Vaughan, Collingwood, then two vacant places. Unless Rikki Clarke and Anthony McGrath will play as batsmen.

Likely XI is something like

Strauss
Trescothick
Vaughan
Flintoff
Collingwood
Clarke
Blackwell
Read
Gough
Anderson
Harmison

Blackwell would probably move up the order if wickets were intact and some serious smashing about needed to be done rather than the nurdling which Collingwood specialises in. (Collingwood wants to be Graham Thorpe when he grows up.)

Strauss is an attractive orthodox opening batsman, not dissimilar in style to Mark Butcher, although he's a bit taller and therefore plays a bit straighter.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Kent]

Report on Tuffey, Astle and Bond's successful fitness tests:

http://www.nzcricket.co.nz/display.aspx?pri=1&cid=1625

Bracewell: No comparison between SA and England:

http://www.nzcricket.co.nz/display.aspx?pri=1&cid=1626

Bracewell seems to think England will be a tougher proposition than SA.

Strangely there's another patronising little suggestion for Graeme Smith, this time about reading material to make him more self-reliant. If "wearing his heart on his sleeve" makes matchwinning 4th innings tons and a test average close to 60 possible, perhaps our own skipper should try it!

 

[Tim]

Excellent news.
If all goes to plan, NZ will be able to pick their best side for the 1st test.

I think we've gotta take a gamble & drop Vettori for Martin. Now critics will say having a bowling attack made up of entirely pace bowlers is not varied enough but I believe that it'll be ok...Bond with his pace, Martin with his ability to bowl well to lefties (and swing the ball back in to right-handers) & Tuffey & Oram with their accuracy outside off should be alright.

 

[meatspx]

Vettori isn't taking wickets atm, and with unresponsive pitches in England and their left-handers, he should be rested.

Also Cairns would suit the 5th seamer role. Short & fast spells (140kms), and allowing himself to conentrate on his batting.

 

[anzac]

great to read that they have all come thru the fitness tests ok.............

however it will depend on the lead up matches to see if they are seleced for the 1st test - esp Bond, I have a suspicon that they will want to give him as long as possisble to get back to full fitness and may not want to play him until the ODIs..........

with the pitches being fresh I'd also be inclined towards an all seam attack, although that can not be determined until we get some matches happening to see if they will support any spin, and what sort of grass cover they have....

Richardson
Papps
Fleming
Styris
Astle
McMillan
McCullum
Cairns
Oram
Tuffy
Martin

the other option would be to bracket Astle with McMillan, and to play an extra bowler - Mills / Vettori / Bond.............

alternatively Tuffey could miss out as I can't see them leaving out Martin unless he looses form badly........similarly they won't drop Cairns in his last series & nor could they leave out Oram.........it seems unfair that the player who has been the backbone of the bowling attack could suddenly find himself fighting for his position!!!

 

[Kent]

Yep, Tuffey will need wickets to force his way into the 1st test side I think.

Cairns at 8 and Oram at 9 is not realistic IMO, basically because NZ need to start taking 20 wickets more than once a year. I was very disappointed to see both Styris and Bracewell speak out about the Basin being too hard and fast (I couldn't picture Steve Waugh telling off the Perth groundsmen for providing a fair surface, even if his side lost by an innings).

McCullum is all but confirmed at #6, and Bracewell has stated "a batsman will be disappointed" when they reach Lords. He also mentioned in that story that he'll have no qualms considering Fleming for one of the opening spots.

From that info, I've deduced that Richardson, Papps, McMillan and Astle are basically playing for 3 places. Even putting the Universities attack to the sword from next Monday night, every run and every brownie point counts.

 

[Tim]

Its going to be a far cry from the last time NZ toured England.

We had to roll out Horne and Bell as openers & im sure there was absolutely no pressure at all for places in the side.

How I wish we still had Shayne O'Connor, he was starting to bowl really well before he had that back injury..his left swing would have a been nightmare for batsmen in England. But not to be unfortunately.

 

[Loony BoB]

My team:

Richardson
Papps
Fleming
Astle
McMillan
McCullum
Styris
Cairns
Oram
Bond
Martin

I think Cairns and Oram in those positions is wonderfully realistic. They're both capable of taking wickets. All of those last five can make up the bowling attack, and McMillan and Astle can offer small doses of their slow balls and bouncers. So five and two halves, so to speak. Then again, Styris might not be considered a major bowler these days, I suppose.

Kent: You say that Tuffey will have to fight to get in, yet they need to have another bowler in the attack - does this mean that you think Vettori will be playing? I think Cairns and Oram are far more likely to take wickets than he is.

 

[marc71178]

Its going to be a far cry from the last time NZ toured England.

Seeing as you beat us comfotably, I for one certainly hope so!

 

[Kent]

Kent: You say that Tuffey will have to fight to get in, yet they need to have another bowler in the attack - does this mean that you think Vettori will be playing? I think Cairns and Oram are far more likely to take wickets than he is.

I agree, but I really doubt they'll drop Vettori.

The nightmare of Giles taking a bag of wickets without a spinner in their own XI will nag away at Bracewell and Fleming, with little voices saying that if 4 right-arm seamers can't do the job then 5 won't do it either. The problem of course is Vettori could spend a week with a curator designing his own test pitch, and maybe still take none-fer!

When I say Tuffey will have to take wickets to get picked, I'm also considering Bracewell's very strong denials that Kyle Mills is only making up the numbers. He's the only one in the squad who gets outswing with the new ball consistently, which isn't a bad person to be with grey skies and Duke balls in prospect.

As for the others, all we've heard about the new version of Bond so far that any test play "will be a major bonus", and ideally Styris shouldn't bowl in tests until you've given up on forcing a result.

The Lord's attack I'd like: Bond, Martin, Tuffey, Oram, Cairns.

The Lord's attack I think we'll get: Martin, Tuffey, Oram, Cairns, Vettori.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The five seamers vs four seamers and one spinner question comes up every year in England.

99% of the time, there are two outcomes when five seamers are picked:
1) Four seamers finish the job and the fifth gets about six overs over the five days
2) Four seamers do nothing, and neither does the fifth.

 

[PY]

Or if the spinner is picked, he does nothing either.

 

[marc71178]

So go for a batsman who can fill in spin!

 

[Neil Pickup]

This is why Giles' place will be under severe threat if and when Collingwood/Clarke and Pietersen are part of the Test middle order.

 

[badgerhair]

This is why Giles' place will be under severe threat if and when Collingwood/Clarke and Pietersen are part of the Test middle order.

Giles's place is already considered insecure if the conditions are definitely against him. He wasn't picked for Headingley v South Africa where we played five seamers, much good though it didn't do us.

Whether it's Giles's place or the spinner's place, though, is the slightly more important aspect - and as far as I can see, it's the spinner's place. And while Fred can be the fourth seamer and bat in the top six, there's a spot for a spinner.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Tim]

Kent, where are you reading or hearing all this stuff about Bond not playing any matches? From what I've read they reckon he could be a started for the 2nd test.

I seriously doubt Bracewell would have wasted a spot in the touring squad if they had doubted whether Bond would play any games at all.

From other reports i've read, he's progressed along better than NZ Cricket had hoped for & the chances of him playing in the test series are increasing by the day.

 

[anzac]

How I wish we still had Shayne O'Connor, he was starting to bowl really well before he had that back injury..his left swing would have a been nightmare for batsmen in England. But not to be unfortunately.

a case for Franklin with his left arm seam option??????

 

[anzac]

The five seamers vs four seamers and one spinner question comes up every year in England.

99% of the time, there are two outcomes when five seamers are picked:
1) Four seamers finish the job and the fifth gets about six overs over the five days
2) Four seamers do nothing, and neither does the fifth.

which is why I disagree with the predetermination to select 5 bowlers on anything other than a flat track..........it's not quite so bad for NZ with Cairns & Oram being allrounders, but IMO the basic premise is if 4 can't do the job then why should 5 be able to????? and I certainly disagree with the idea of picking any more than a max of 4 bowlers of any one type unless you have a good variety - RAO, LAO, seam, swing, pace & bounce.............

AUS selects 4 specialist bowlers in most instances - 3 seam & 1 spin, and has back up options from their batting lineup in the likes of Lehman, Katich, Hogg etc....unfortunately for NZ their options are limited to the likes of Styris, Astle (if he bowls any more) and McMillan - none of whom provide a spin option.........

as I stated in another thread IMO if NZ could find a batsman who can offer a spin option then the selection of a specialist spinner would be based upon form as much as the wicket...........