*Official** New Zealand in England

[anzac]

OK, so totally out of nowhere, and from a particularly good bowling series' from Oram against pak and Sa, you think that he doesn't have a bowling future? What? Oram contains, but it doesn't mean that he can't take wickets as well. He relished the opportunity with the new ball in the SA series, and did the job quite well.

since when has being a batting allrounder as opposed to a bowling allrounder meant that you don't have a bowling future???? What would you call Kallis or Klusener???

the context was does his batting at 7 rate him as a genuine allrounder - too low for being a batting allrounder IMO & more in a position of a bowler who can score some runs....which IMO is not in keeping with his batting ability / potential...

All it means is that IMO Oram's batting will become his major contribution as opposed to his bowling, and that I question his batting that low in the order! I agree that he is a containment bowler who is good for a couple of wickets - but not as primarily being a wicket taking bowler..............

 

[Mingster]

OK you can think what ever you want.

 

[Kent]

Mingster raises a good point about McCullum ideally seeing off the second new ball, and his super-quick pinching of runs may lose worth if he was stuck with tail-enders.

Batting at 7 may be a tough on Oram's talent, but really it's a similar case for Gilchrist (ave. 54.4). At least Oram can go boundary-hunting slightly better than McCullum if stuck with a rabbit at the other end.

 

[marc71178]

OK you can think what ever you want.

Indeed he can, and from his posts in hs time on here, I pay a lot of credence to what he says.

 

[Kent]

The Official NZ Squad

Richardson
Papps
Fleming
Styris
Astle
McMillan

McCullum

Oram
Cairns
Vettori
Bond
C Martin
Tuffey
Mills :O

Mills clearly 'the bolter' - good results against SL 'A', but no doubt this is to do with swing bowling options. Bond, Tuffey and Astle still have to pass fitness tests on the 24th.

 

[Kent]

Bracewell's thoughts, then Astle -

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/51615.wma

Astle, continued -

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/51630.wma

 

[Dougie Rydal]

Good squad...

I would have selected James Franklin ahead of Mills, as he offers a left arm variation and swings the ball also.

A little worried about some of our injured players, Astle, Bond and Tuffey.

But try picking a test team out of that lot, take Mills out of the equation as he won't play in the tests, but try getting13 into 11 - it won't go.

Team?
1. Richardson
2. Papps
3. Fleming
4. Styris
5. Astle
6. McCullum
7. Cairns
8. Oram
9. Vetorri
10. Bond
11. Martin

Don't envy the selectors, they've got a few sleepless nights ahead of them; if they thought they had it tough selecting the squad, what about selecting the playing XI

No place for McMillan and Tuffey? Although Tuffey might get the nod ahead of Martin as both MArtin and Bond take the ball into the right handers - surely that's unthinkable dropping Martin.he playing XI.

Maybe open with Astle ahead of Papps - is that a stupid idea. Doesn't do a lot for developing Papps.

Hmmmm

One thing is for sure, there certainly is some genuine depth in the NZ ranks

 

[Kent]

Personally I can't see them ever using Astle as a regular test opener. He does it well in the ODIs, but leads with his front pad too much early on.

Bracewell says Fleming opening is an option they'll consider, but doesn't want to put Papps on the scrapheap yet at all.

 

[Dougie Rydal]

I agree. Personally I would only ever open with Richardson and Papps, the others just have to fight it out among themselves for middle order berths. And I'd suggest Macca might be watching a fair bit of cricket on this tour during test time.

 

[badgerhair]

And I'd suggest Macca might be watching a fair bit of cricket on this tour during test time.

That's going to depend rather a lot on the weather. He may actually watch a fair bit of the groundstaff manipulating the covers.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Loony BoB]

Touché.

Nice team. I imagine McMillan and Astle might switch places, depending on Astle's fitness. I think it would be wise to give them each at least one test, if only to give Astle a little rest inbetween. ODI's, too.

 

[anzac]

On paper it looks to be a very strong squad, but it will come as no surprise that I have some very real concerns regarding the selections of Bond & Astle....

Bond has had only the 1 run with the 'A' team in a limited over match (9 overs?), and Astle has not played any cricket since his injury in India..........they may pass the upsoming fitness test, yet both will lack match fitness. I have no doubt that both will play in most of the warm up games in an effort to bring them up to speed, yet this runs the risk of pushing them too far too soon - shades of Vettori's first comeback?????

Furthermore there is the other alternative as suggested on the NZ cricket site, that Bond may not play in at least the first Test (if any), to ensure his full & long term recovery...........he may only be available for the ODIs & play in the Tour matches to come back into fitness.

If they do follow this strategy with Bond then IMO there is every chance they will likely do the same with Astle unless they are forced to use him to cover for injury / loss of form.......

I also have some concerns regarding Tuffey (not knowing how serious his injury has restricted his movement / ability to bowl in the nets). In past seasons Tuffey had been described as a bowler who was a slow starter & needed a solid & consistant workload to maintain his form - again the same scenario as for Bond & Astle above.............

 

[anzac]

In light of the above, then I'd say that at this stage the team for the 1st Test would look something like:

Richardson
Papps
Fleming
Styris
McMillan
Cairns
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Tuffey
Martin

Mills

IMO they'd be likely to keep Astle & Bond in cotton wool if they weren't in the playing side, & Mills would be likely to start if Tuffey was still a bit off..........

IMO it is highly unlikely that they would consider Astle as a potential Test opener after all the hype about his being a better performer in the middle order in ODIs (regardless that Braces has said he will open in ODIs), & likewise any talk regarding Fleming as potential Test opener is IMO a contingency for injury, or even a red herring to keep the English brains trust guessing...........

 

[meatspx]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd feel alot more confident with Astle opening with Richardson, rather than not playing Astle at all. If Astle isn't selected in the 1st test then he shouldn't even be there - all players should be fit due to the small squad size.

And McMillan's days should be numbered, but he's got another chance. Sinclair deserves to be in the squad, plus provides a player who can score big tons.

It will be interesting to see if they drop Vettori and play 5 fast bowlers -Cairns/Oram/Bond/Tuffey/Martin. I'd rather have Bond in the team bowling short spells of 4/5 overs than have Vettori tossing up scones.

 

[Tim]

I haven't really been listening to what others have been saying but Papps & Richardson need to open.

Im sorry but giving Astle the responsibility of opening after a long injury lay-off and with virtually zip match practice under his belt is suicide. Astle has been brilliant at #5 for NZ over the last 3 years and where he seems to be most comfortable so therefore thats where he must bat in the test series.

Papps had a good start, but I thought he got at least 2 ridiculous lbw decisions against South Africa..surprise surprise it was Asoka De Silva. Papps has had experience in England with NZ 'A' so I think he's the best option to open with Richardson.
Im not expecting Fleming to score any runs. He scores an 80 or 90 once every 10 innings and everyone goes nuts over how great his form is.
He needs to step up big time this series because against South Africa generally we were 30/2 and fortunately the middle order bailed us out.
The fact is, that in India & against South Africa..while all the other batsmen were averaging 40+, Fleming averaged less than 25 in both series on what you would call excellent batting tracks.

At this stage only Styris & Oram are automatic choices...the rest have all had patchy performances recently.

 

[Token]

Papps
Richardson
Fleming
Styris
Astle
McCullum
Cairns
Oram
Bond
Tuffey
Martin

?

 

[anzac]

If Astle isn't selected in the 1st test then he shouldn't even be there - all players should be fit due to the small squad size.

I agree that ALL players in the squad should be in the hat for selections (unless injury / form on Tour).......this is the very reason why I would have NOT selected Astle, and would have been hesitant to take Bond after only 9 overs of competitive cricket.........

my question is if we are genuine regarding the current 'strong' depth in selection possibilities, how much benefit does the team get from having 2 players in a squad of 14 who have not played competitive cricket for over 12 months, particularly when in comparison to players who are injury free, match fit & in good form??????? On past history they are both class players, but will they be able to contribute any better than those that have missed out????

furthermore if they go with the scenario of resting Bond & possibly Astle until the ODIs, then we are effectively sending a 12 man squad for the Test series, including a spin bowler who may not be required to play as a result of the early season pitches..........to me this is both illogical and akin to shooting yourself in the foot - they have virtually no options so far as changing the mix in the team is concerned.................unless they are willing to play their 2 recovering players - which brings me back to my original point...

 

[anzac]

I also question the selection / benefit of Vettori.............

there has been some recent talk regarding his mental / emotional state in so much as he has supposedly become very frustrated at his lack of results & poor decisions, and has tried too hard to make things happen & lost some patience (a cardinal sin for a spin bowler).........

my question is how is an early season tour to England likely to provide any real solutions to the situation, considering that Bracewell has acknowledged that the pitches historically do not support spin bowling at this time of the year (when explaining the selection of only 1 spin bowler & the selection of Mills)?

surely if this is the case then Vettori would ordinarilly be looking forward to carrying the drinks more often than playing. Furthermore wouldn't it have been better in this scenario to have taken another player such as B Martin, who reportedly gets more turn than Vettori & as such would have a better chance of getting anything out of the pitches, and thus give Vettori a break so as to get his frustrations out of his system rather than run the risk of further compounding / accentuating them????

 

[anzac]

ok so my 2nd thoughts on the squad....in view of my previous posts

IMO there are too many 'risks' so far as match fitness & form, with Bond & Astle being selected on reputation rather than current ability for a start.

Tuffey is also coming back from injury & has a reputation for struggling for form following a break from the game.

I also think Vettori's selection is possibly not the best option for either the team or the player.

In a squad of 14 they are effectively starting the tour with 12 options available for test selection, with 3 of these being: a seamer coming back from injury; a spin bowler who ordinarily may not be required; and a newbie. IMO this then gives them very little in the way of options regarding team make up & selections.

Rather than a squad with strength & depth, it appears to have the worst case scenario of being very thin & can lead to the all too familiar situation where in reality competition for team places becomes virtually non existant! Players under the spotlight such as McMillan & Vettori become virtually assured of selection for the Tests, and as such are under little pressure to perform throughout the series, with the usual scenario of 1 good innings usually being enough to ensure their continued selections in squads for subsequent series.....

don't get me wrong - I support the players and wish them the best etc, but I find this squad full of risk & unknown factors, & very disappointing considering both Bracewell's original comments re his selection philosophy, and the supposedly strong depth currently available in NZ cricket.

IMO with such an important series to be contested where the opposition are riding high after their last Home series & current tour, then the selectors should have selected the 14 players that would have given them the best possible options from day 1 of the tour. IMO this squad has the possibility of having anything up to 4 or 5 'passengers' in a worst case scenario - & you do not win Tours with that sort of handicap!

 

[meatspx]

Bond may miss Tests with longer term in mind

Fast bowler Shane Bond has been named in the New Zealand team for their tour of England starting later this month, but coach John Bracewell says any Tests Bond plays on tour will be a bonus.

Bond has been recovering from a stress fracture in his back suffered in Sri Lanka last May, and injured again during the preparatory stages of the home season in November.

“Shane is very happy with where he is technically. It’s probably the danger time in terms of his body feels so good and he is bowling with such ease that he is finding it difficult to judge what is 80%, 95% and 110% and he’s almost busting out of his skin wanting to let it go and measure it.

Bracewell said the nature of the tour meant that New Zealand could probably have taken only 13 players to maintain the balance of the side, but the availability of Chris Cairns for the tour had made it possible to take the punt on Shane Bond in the 14. That will allow Bond to be nurtured through the tour with a plan aimed at ensuring he is in good shape for a lengthy period of time rather than leaving him at home to bowl on indoor surfaces against no-one.

“I’ve talked with Shane about that and looking to evolve his technique over the tour and playing in the Test matches being an absolute bonus. If he misses the first Test he has still got quite a lengthy lead-up period through to the second Test with the Leicestershire game banged between the two.

“We’re taking a long term view on Shane’s particular development as a cherished investment,” he said.