**Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

If you like The Beatles but don't like Mozart, you're not a music fan.

Not remotely analogous. Apart from the fact you can't really be a "fan" of the whole genre of "music", classical and pop music are infinitely more wide-ranging and complex things than Test\ODI cricket are.

 

[Richard]

Test cricket didn't exist first though, did it? Cricket was first, then tests were invented. Tests are a format of cricket.


Just because someone likes a format over the other doesn't mean they're not a 'true' fan.

Test (and domestic First-Class) cricket is cricket. Anything else is not cricket by itself. OD cricket is only cricket because it resembles the First-Class game. As I've said many times, Twenty20 doesn't really feel much like cricket to me, so hence I don't like it.

Without the First-Class game, cricket ceases to be cricket as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NUFAN]

Not remotely analogous. Apart from the fact you can't really be a "fan" of the whole genre of "music", classical and pop music are infinitely more wide-ranging and complex things than Test\ODI cricket are.

Haha but you're not a fan of the whole genre of Test Cricket, otherwise you would welcome Bangladesh.

 

[NZTailender]

Test (and domestic First-Class) cricket is cricket. Anything else is not cricket by itself. OD cricket is only cricket because it resembles the First-Class game. As I've said many times, Twenty20 doesn't really feel much like cricket to me, so hence I don't like it.

Without the First-Class game, cricket ceases to be cricket as far as I'm concerned.

So the boy/girl playing cricket in the backyard with his brother, sister, father, mother and/or friend(s) is not playing cricket?


Ludicrous.

 

[NZTailender]

Not remotely analogous. Apart from the fact you can't really be a "fan" of the whole genre of "music", classical and pop music are infinitely more wide-ranging and complex things than Test\ODI cricket are.

Test cricket is classical, ODI is rock, T20 is pop, backyard is indie. Cricket is music. Can you not see the analogy?

 

[Richard]

So the boy/girl playing cricket in the backyard with his brother, sister, father, mother and/or friend(s) is not playing cricket?


Ludicrous.

Of course not - I said all this years ago, CBA finding the post though. Something like Kyle said the most pure form of the game was a hitabout on the beach with a few beers and mates, I said "that's not cricket, that's a hitabout with a cricket-bat and ball".

Playing in the backyard or garden is having a bit of a knockaround with a cricket bat, probably softball or tennis-ball and stumps. Not even anything like playing a game of cricket.

Good fun and all that, obviously, but that's an entirely different matter.

 

[Richard]

Test cricket is classical, ODI is rock, T20 is pop, backyard is indie. Cricket is music. Can you not see the analogy?

Nope, nothing whatsoever IMO. Some (though, admittedly, not that many) pop songs are every bit as musically brilliant as classical compositions. They're just totally different in style. First-Class cricket >>>>> one-day and one-evening cricket.

 

[NZTailender]

Of course not - I said all this years ago, CBA finding the post though. Something like Kyle said the most pure form of the game was a hitabout on the beach with a few beers and mates, I said "that's not cricket, that's a hitabout with a cricket-bat and ball".

Playing in the backyard or garden is having a bit of a knockaround with a cricket bat, probably softball or tennis-ball and stumps. Not even anything like playing a game of cricket.

Good fun and all that, obviously, but that's an entirely different matter.

No, Richard, you're making the mistake of test=cricket. Should I find a few websites explaining what cricket is? You seem to be struggling with fundamental facts here.

 

[Richard]

Haha but you're not a fan of the whole genre of Test Cricket, otherwise you would welcome Bangladesh.

Bangladesh aren't worthy of being a Test-playing team, though, that's the thing. If they were, I'd welcome 'em.

 

[NZTailender]

Nope, nothing whatsoever IMO. Some (though, admittedly, not that many) pop songs are every bit as musically brilliant as classical compositions. They're just totally different in style. First-Class cricket >>>>> one-day and one-evening cricket.

Which is why sometimes ODI's can provide more entertainment than a test match, on occasion.

Everything else is a personal preference. You may think test matches are the best form of cricket (and I agree, by the way) but it doesn't mean that everything else isn't cricket.


As much as I don't like country and western, and wish it would be wiped from the face of the earth, it's still music.

 

[Richard]

No, Richard, you're making the mistake of test=cricket. Should I find a few websites explaining what cricket is? You seem to be struggling with fundamental facts here.

Fundamental fact is that cricket is the three\four\five-day two-innings game, at the top few levels (club cricket is a bit different as mostly the two-innings game isn't possible and I said this a good few posts earlier). Anything else at the top levels, though, is just a something with a resemblence. It's not cricket, it's one-day\one-evening cricket. I don't mind one-day cricket at all, but I'd not take much interest in it but for the First-Class game.

You can give me all the websites you want, that's the way I consider it and I know the Laws Of Cricket reasonably well, and my mindset isn't changed in the slightest.

 

[Richard]

Which is why sometimes ODI's can provide more entertainment than a test match, on occasion.

Everything else is a personal preference. You may think test matches are the best form of cricket (and I agree, by the way) but it doesn't mean that everything else isn't cricket.

Well, it does as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, some people might think differently - some people speak a different language to me too, and that means that for them the sky is bleu (think it's spelt like that) rather than blue. Doesn't stop it being blue to me, though.

BTW, ODIs may not be cricket (they're one-day cricket) but they're still good and I enjoy 'em.

 

[NZTailender]

Fundamental fact is that cricket is the three\four\five-day two-innings game, at the top few levels (club cricket is a bit different as mostly the two-innings game isn't possible and I said this a good few posts earlier). Anything else at the top levels, though, is just a something with a resemblance. It's not cricket, it's one-day\one-evening cricket. I don't mind one-day cricket at all, but I'd not take much interest in it but for the First-Class game.

You can give me all the websites you want, that's the way I consider it and I know the Laws Of Cricket reasonably well, and my mindset isn't changed in the slightest.

Fundamental fact cricket is a game where a bowler delivers a ball to a batsman on a pitch with a set of stumps.

 

[Richard]

... with ten fielders and two Umpires and two scorers and defined times(\overs). Anything else and it's just a hitabout.

 

[NZTailender]

... with ten fielders and two Umpires and two scorers and defined times(\overs). Anything else and it's just a hitabout.

I feel sorry for you Richard, I really do. You must miss out on a lot of enjoyment that's associated with playing and watching all forms of cricket.


Also, you've kind of just conceded cricket is a game with 11 players, two scorers and defined time and overs. That's all forms of FC, Test, OD, ODI, T20 and T20I. Itstl.

 

[Athlai]

Arguing with Richard can be like nailing jelly to a wall, its hardly worth the effort. He understands now that the vast majority of CW sees his view as elitist, yet this will hardly change his opinion on the matter.

As for myself, I probably like ODI's a bit more than Tests, but my teams never been particularly good at Tests so it isn't that surprising. I like both forms and don't mind T20 (though internationals are becoming increasingly pointless, one match!?! No warm up?!? The game ends on the back of a single players performance and is just getting boring IMO.)

 

[Richard]

I feel sorry for you Richard, I really do. You must miss out on a lot of enjoyment that's associated with playing and watching all forms of cricket.

Nope, not at all. Something doesn't have to be cricket to be enjoyable. I love a good hit-about with mates, but I don't enjoy it because I'm saying "this is cricket", I enjoy it because I enjoy it. I also like the one-day game at international and county level, but I don't like it as much as I do the four- and five-day game at said levels.

Also, you've kind of just conceded cricket is a game with 11 players, two scorers and defined time and overs. That's all forms of FC, Test, OD, ODI, T20 and T20I. Itstl.

I've made my stance clear. At the levels of the game where multi-day, two-innings cricket is possible, the limited-overs one-day game (and certainly the Twenty20 one-evening game) isn't cricket. At lower levels where multi-day cricket isn't possible, then there's a case for being more ambiguous. Anything without 11 players per side, 2 Umpires and 2 scorers is not and never will be cricket, just a hitabout. Simple as that. I don't expect everyone to take this view, but it is the view I take and I won't be changing it.

 

[NZTailender]

Simple as that. I don't expect everyone to take this view, but it is the view I take and I won't be changing it.

Then can you not state this 'view' as a fact, which you have been doing. It's really quite annoying.

 

[NUFAN]

So how many hours until today's hitabout start?

 

[Richard]

Then can you not state this 'view' as a fact, which you have been doing. It's really quite annoying.

FFS, it's "personal fact", if you will. It's not something which is changeable (such as one's view on a player), it's something which is ingrained and will stay the way it is. Even if others think differently.

Same way the colour of the sky (or, indeed, the name of most any object) depends on what language you speak.

Either way, sorry if I annoyed you. You do have such a strange spectrum of stuff that annoys you and stuff you'll happily let go.