***Official*** New Zealand in England series 2013

[straw man]

We used to be considered 'clinical' in ODIs - what's the opposite of clinical? Seems this match was there for the taking at various stages and we let it slip through sloppyness (64 off the last 3 overs and apparent inability to construct a moderate chase).

I like the direction this ODI side has taken in recent times, in particular McClenaghan's wicket-taking and a return of lower order fire-power with McCullum at 6. However imo we still seem to be just a collection of players (some of whom are quite good at ODIs) and tend to win games on the back of one or two individual efforts, rather than a good ODI side like we were for much of last decade. We are not living up to the stereotype of NZ teams being 'greater than the sum of their parts'.

At least pleased to see NcCullum and Mills scored some runs - we're going to need those lower order runs I feel to have a chance in the CT.

 

[Mike5181]

Watling should be at number five really.

 

[Flem274*]

In an ideal world we would be building for the 2015 world cup, and many of the current side will be 34-36 when it rolls around. Vettori and Mills are world class, Brendon McCullum is decent, Elliott and Nathan McCullum are solid and Franklin has his moments, but we need viable replacements ready for the older guys if they aren't up to it in 2015.

Watling at number five either as the keeper or as a specialist batsman would be my preference after the Champions Trophy as well if Elliott disappoints. I think Watling is a better ODI batsman than Elliot anyway itbt but Elliott hasn't really done anything to deserve to be either dropped or retained. Anderson or Neesham should come in for Franklin due to being better bowlers already and promising talents with the bat. I can't remember how Nick Beard went in domestic one dayers, but he was a matchwinner for Otago in the HRV Cup so he wouldn't be the worst new squad member either since we're light on spinners.

Big question marks over who opens if Ronchi doesn't make the position his own. Papps, How etc have been tried and failed before. Kitchen had a good run as a one day opener for Auckland. Maybe he will be introduced to the squad soon?

 

[hendrix]

I'll say it again, McCullum and Ronchi should trade places.

Barring that, Williamson should be opening.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

having managed to catch a few minutes of the game in the morning, why the **** didn't Taylor swivel a bit and slog towards fine leg, seeing that the fielder had been pulled out from there.

 

[straw man]

In an ideal world we would be building for the 2015 world cup, and many of the current side will be 34-36 when it rolls around. Vettori and Mills are world class, Brendon McCullum is decent, Elliott and Nathan McCullum are solid and Franklin has his moments, but we need viable replacements ready for the older guys if they aren't up to it in 2015.

Watling at number five either as the keeper or as a specialist batsman would be my preference after the Champions Trophy as well if Elliott disappoints. I think Watling is a better ODI batsman than Elliot anyway itbt but Elliott hasn't really done anything to deserve to be either dropped or retained. Anderson or Neesham should come in for Franklin due to being better bowlers already and promising talents with the bat. I can't remember how Nick Beard went in domestic one dayers, but he was a matchwinner for Otago in the HRV Cup so he wouldn't be the worst new squad member either since we're light on spinners.

Big question marks over who opens if Ronchi doesn't make the position his own. Papps, How etc have been tried and failed before. Kitchen had a good run as a one day opener for Auckland. Maybe he will be introduced to the squad soon?

We can start building for the World Cup after this tournament - a few games to Henry and Milne and younger batsmen (though I can't think who right now. Not convinced by Kitchen and prefer allrounders to focus on first class). Agree Watling at 5 would be a modest improvement over Elliott, though I think really both Ronchi and McCullum should bat down the order, which means a rearrangement is required. Wouldn't mind if they just moved Ronchi to 6 and everyone else up one.

Nick Beard and Kane Williamson bowling together would have several members of this forum in conniptions.

 

[Bahnz]

I still like Watling as an opener. Gave him an aggressive partner like Guptill to take the runscoring pressure off, and I think he can still do a job for NZ. With him slotting into the side you could have a team along the lines of:

Guptill
Watling
KW
Taylor
Elliot/Franklin
McCullum
Ronchi
Vettori/NMac
3 out of Southee, Boult, Mills, McC, Bennett, Milne, Henry

Throw in the tantalising (but probably unlikely to be realised) prospect of Ryder returning for that number 5 spot, and you have a damn good side.

 

[straw man]

Can't shake image of Watling looking absolutely clueless against Anderson and Finn with the new white ball in NZ though. For this tournament I'd go.

Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Watling/Elliott
McCullum
Franklin
Ronchi
NcCullum
Southee
Mills
McClenaghan

The middle order could go in any order but I've just alternated hitters with strike-rotators.

Jury still out on where Vettori fits into the side. Don't think can afford to replace Franklin's batting with Vettori's, so that leaves NcCullum or perhaps Southee under threat.

 

[hendrix]

I still like Watling as an opener. Gave him an aggressive partner like Guptill to take the runscoring pressure off, and I think he can still do a job for NZ. With him slotting into the side you could have a team along the lines of:

Maybe he's turned it around a bit recently but I just don't see Guptill as an aggressive opener. Sure, he's impressive in his ability to lift his strike rate later on, but I've never seen him as someone who will dominate a new ball partnership.

 

[Hurricane]

Can't shake image of Watling looking absolutely clueless against Anderson and Finn with the new white ball in NZ though. For this tournament I'd go.

Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Watling/Elliott
McCullum
Franklin
Ronchi
NcCullum
Southee
Mills
McClenaghan

The middle order could go in any order but I've just alternated hitters with strike-rotators.

Jury still out on where Vettori fits into the side. Don't think can afford to replace Franklin's batting with Vettori's, so that leaves NcCullum or perhaps Southee under threat.

A week ago i would have argued that you should start him ahead of Franko but with no games under his belt it is not an option to play him barring injuries in the CT.

 

[Zinzan]

What am I missing here? Rutherford is arguably the most naturally gifted stroke-maker NZ have seen since Ryder and just because he didn't have a good ODI series against England, nobody wants a bar of him? Also why would we need Ronchi when McCullum can keep in the shorter form.

My team would be;

Rutherford
Guptill (left & right combo)
Williamson
Taylor
Elliott
McCullum (wk)
Vettori
NcCullum
Southee
Mills
McClenaghan

 

[Hurricane]

What am I missing here? Rutherford is arguably the most naturally gifted stroke-maker NZ have seen since Ryder and just because he didn't have a good ODI series against England, nobody wants a bar of him? Also why would we need Ronchi when McCullum can keep in the shorter form.

My team would be;

Rutherford
Guptill (left & right combo)
Williamson
Taylor
Elliott
McCullum (wk)
Vettori
NcCullum
Southee
Mills
McClenaghan

Look up his List A record - and that is why peeps are non believers.

I have seen him live in the HRV cup and he is the goods so I am sympathetic to his cause and he will be a stalwart within 2 years.

Do you put him in during the CT or give him another go during a less important series.

 

[Kippax]

Look up his List A record - and that is why peeps are non believers.

I have seen him live in the HRV cup and he is the goods so I am sympathetic to his cause and he will be a stalwart within 2 years.

Do you put him in during the CT or give him another go during a less important series.

Even Rutherford's boi Cumming doesn't think he should be near the ODI side ftr -
Rutherford TMS - YouTube

No versatility, wholly reliant on bowlers having the temerity to enter into his zones, rather than the other way around. No pull shot or strategy to handle a rising delivery, just lets it crash into his forearm, like the unwieldy little tank he is.

 

[cric_manic]

Ahh the England odi team, kinda remind me of tha England rugby team, one time very good, but most of the time not.No plan b, and there lack of real talent gets exposed

 

[straw man]

Completely bizarre that this series resumes for two T20s after the Champions Trophy finishes and before the Ashes starts

 

[grecian]

Completely bizarre that this series resumes for two T20s after the Champions Trophy finishes and before the Ashes starts

Not that bizarre is it, Kiwis are still in the country, and they probably didn't want to disrupt the squads by getting in the t20 players before we failed in the champ trophy.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, it makes sense really, given the Champions Trophy is in England. Would've been odd if the CT was somewhere else and New Zealand had to move their squad back to England for two T20s afterwards but it's logical as it is.

 

[theegyptian]

Don't know what kind of squad england will prepare for the T20's. England's Kevin Pietersen returns with little time to find Ashes form | Sport | The Guardian This article suggests Broad won't be included so god knows who the bowlers will be. Actually I'd guess Finn will get a runout as he hasn't played these ODI's and not much of the rest of the squad are odi/test players so won't need to be rested.

Hales is in an epic run of bad form in four day and has now been dropped and his bad form has translated to the 40 over game. Yet he averages 37 @ sr 134 in T20i and ranked no.3 in the world. Whatever decision England makes is going to be cruel. Dropping him is completely unwarranted on the back of his previous international form but select him and he's likely to look really stupid and probably worsen his form. I'm pretty sure they will select him but still.

Hopefully Root doesn't get selected. Pretty woeful at attempting big shots. Loses balance and doesn't have the power.

People talk about Cook but there is no way he'll come into the team here with the ashes coming up. And 2 he shouldn't be coming into the team anyway. Much the same as Root. Keep with the specialists.

My 13 would be.


Hales, Lumb, Wright, Morgan, Bairstow, Buttler, Tredwell, Finn, Dernbach, Briggs, Samit, Woakes, Bopara

A lot of **** but none of the promising young bucks have shown that much this year and there really aren't the bowlers coming through.

 

[Dan]

Davies/Cobb, Trego, Wright, Morgan, Samit, Buttler, Stokes, Napier, Tredwell, Finn, Parry
(Bopara, Woakes/Meschede)


Debut 'em all for their List A form this season. It's two meaningless T20s and keeps all Test players bar Finn away from the shortest format. Parry and Trego have been h4x with the white ball.

 

[_Ed_]

This article suggests Broad won't be included so god knows who the bowlers will be.

Isn't he T20 captain? Who will lead the team in his absence?