*Official* New Zealand in England 2015

[Zinzan]

zinzan and bahnz completely ignoring this

Sure are, and rightly so.

And expect the same type of dissection in any tour thread when one team gets rolled over in the last 2 days, in spite of the other team playing 'well'.

 

[Athlai]

Not really. Zinzan openly disagreed with it and Bahnz is talking about Jeetan Patel rather than actually analysing the game.

A technique known as Athlying it.

 

[Prince EWS]

One thing I'd be very disappointed about if i was a kiwi fan is the start of the second innings chase. Imo Guptil and Latham's main goal should have been to at least blunt the new ball for the first ten overs and anything after that is a bonus. Think back to England's last test before this one...the opposition needed 198 on a pitch doing loads and their openers were a 22 year old and a 21 year old playing his first game out of position and still those two held out for 12.5 overs. Granted they didn't score a shed load of runs (though 35 wasn't bad tbh) but merely sticking around to see off that first Anderson/Broad burst was a massive reason behind the win. If Guptil and Latham had lasted at least seven to eight overs then there's a very strong chance NZ may have held out. Those are the fine margins that can win or lose you a game.

Seriously it was ridiculous to talk about the West Indies in this post. Have a spell.

 

[Athlai]

One thing I'd be very disappointed about if i was a kiwi fan is the start of the second innings chase. Imo Guptil and Latham's main goal should have been to at least blunt the new ball for the first ten overs and anything after that is a bonus. Think back to England's last test before this one...the opposition needed 198 on a pitch doing loads and their openers were a 22 year old and a 21 year old playing his first game out of position and still those two held out for 12.5 overs. Granted they didn't score a shed load of runs (though 35 wasn't bad tbh) but merely sticking around to see off that first Anderson/Broad burst was a massive reason behind the win. If Guptil and Latham had lasted at least seven to eight overs then there's a very strong chance NZ may have held out. Those are the fine margins that can win or lose you a game.

 

[RxGM]

One thing I'd be very disappointed about if i was a kiwi fan is the start of the second innings chase. Imo Guptil and Latham's main goal should have been to at least blunt the new ball for the first ten overs and anything after that is a bonus. Think back to England's last test before this one...the opposition needed 198 on a pitch doing loads and their openers were a 22 year old and a 21 year old playing his first game out of position and still those two held out for 12.5 overs. Granted they didn't score a shed load of runs (though 35 wasn't bad tbh) but merely sticking around to see off that first Anderson/Broad burst was a massive reason behind the win. If Guptil and Latham had lasted at least seven to eight overs then there's a very strong chance NZ may have held out. Those are the fine margins that can win or lose you a game.

There are alot of if/buts & maybes, im not going to lay into guppy, him getting 70 runs in the test far exceeded my expectations of any of the potential opening candidates bar latham, and I didn't give latham much chance the guy must have been mentally fried after keeping for so long (with limited prep). Really exemplified why keepers should not open in tests.

 

[Zinzan]

I think there is a better chance of Dan been called up, which is quite unfortunate.
For all the success stories of the McHesson regieme the non-selection of JS Patel remains the biggest failure

Not really if you think he was on Hesson's tour to SA in 2013 and then declined the invite to go to the Windies last year.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Seriously it was ridiculous to talk about the West Indies in this post. Have a spell.

I was just making a comparison interms of the approach Prince. One team had rookies opening the batting and managed to take 13 overs out of the new ball which meant their middle order had less pressure. NZ's openers, who are vastly more experienced just seemed to come out swinging and when you consider they were just nine overs away from survival i think my point has merit. If Guptil and Latham were cautious in that opening spell NZ may have held on.

 

[Zinzan]

One thing I'd be very disappointed about if i was a kiwi fan is the start of the second innings chase. Imo Guptil and Latham's main goal should have been to at least blunt the new ball for the first ten overs and anything after that is a bonus. Think back to England's last test before this one...the opposition needed 198 on a pitch doing loads and their openers were a 22 year old and a 21 year old playing his first game out of position and still those two held out for 12.5 overs. Granted they didn't score a shed load of runs (though 35 wasn't bad tbh) but merely sticking around to see off that first Anderson/Broad burst was a massive reason behind the win. If Guptil and Latham had lasted at least seven to eight overs then there's a very strong chance NZ may have held out. Those are the fine margins that can win or lose you a game.

Really? Just when I thought you were finally engaging in relevant discussion you had to spoil it all.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So you agree with Guptil and Latham going out there swinging from the first ball Athlai?

 

[RxGM]

Not really if you think he was on Hesson's tour to SA in 2013 and then declined the invite to go to the Windies last year.

He was on the RSA tour and was hung out to dry after that, was made the scape goat for the batting performace. He was very good in previous india/sl series. Two years ago when b martin broke down after the first test at lords rather than call up jeets they played four seamers on a bunsen. I think swan took a 10-fir that test. If he was ever going to get a recall it would have been that test

 

[Prince EWS]

There have gotta be at least 1,000 better examples you could've come up with than a 13-over 35 run partnership though ffs. It just takes the piss entirely, especially given you've been given clear moderator instructions to the tune of:

Please don't derail threads by bringing up the West Indies or West Indian players where they aren't relevant.

 

[WindieWeathers]

There are alot of if/buts & maybes, im not going to lay into guppy, him getting 70 runs in the test far exceeded my expectations of any of the potential opening candidates bar latham, and I didn't give latham much chance the guy must have been mentally fried after keeping for so long (with limited prep). Really exemplified why keepers should not open in tests.

Cheers..at least you understood what i was saying.

 

[WindieWeathers]

There have gotta be at least 1,000 better examples you could've come up with than a 13-over 35 run partnership though ffs. It just takes the piss entirely, especially given you've been given clear moderator instructions to the tune of:

It was the last game England had BEFORE this one and it's virtually the same attack!!..i really didn't intend to do "derail" anything Prince hence i didn't mention names or the team involved. I talked about the SITUATION... That's all so i think the reaction is harsh tbh.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There have gotta be at least 1,000 better examples you could've come up with than a 13-over 35 run partnership though ffs. It just takes the piss entirely, especially given you've been given clear moderator instructions to the tune of:

I hate defending him but it is arguably relevant when it was England's last match before this series and WI were chasing in the 4th innings like NZ.

 

[RxGM]

Cheers..at least you understood what i was saying.

Im replying to the first part of your statement about the openers performance i really couldnt give a **** about relating it some other non-NZ game, Im quite one-eyed like that

 

[Zinzan]

He was on the RSA tour and was hung out to dry after that, was made the scape goat for the batting performace. He was very good in previous india/sl series. Two years ago when b martin broke down after the first test at lords rather than call up jeets they played four seamers on a bunsen. I think swan took a 10-fir that test. If he was ever going to get a recall it would have been that test

I don't think his batting approach that tour did him any favours.. that's true. In fact I heard some murmurs suggesting he'd never play for NZ after that. The fact he was selected for the Windies tour the next year showed that wasn't in fact the case. I'm just hoping that sanity prevails here.

Btw, I accept there's a huge gap between county cricket and Tests, but what Patel has done in English conditions in the last 2-3 years has been pretty remarkable for a spinner.

 

[NZTailender]

Unfortunately we don't have other options.

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[Howe_zat]

I was just making a comparison interms of the approach Prince. One team had rookies opening the batting and managed to take 13 overs out of the new ball which meant their middle order had less pressure. NZ's openers, who are vastly more experienced just seemed to come out swinging and when you consider they were just nine overs away from survival i think my point has merit. If Guptil and Latham were cautious in that opening spell NZ may have held on.

NZ opened with Tom Latham, a prospect in his early 20s with 10 Tests behind him, and Guptill, chiefly a one-day player making his Test comeback after 30-odd previous matches.
WI opened with Kraigg Brathwaite, a prospect in his early 20s with 20 Tests behind him, and Smith, chiefly a one-day player making his Test comeback after 30-odd previous matches.

FYI the fact that you haven't bothered to make a single post about England and/or when NZ were on top in this match marks out your agenda pretty well. It's clear from that much that you're making no attempt to post as a neutral supporter in this series and everyone is sick of it, not just the handful of kiwis you've decided to fall out with.

Have a spell.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I hate defending him but it is arguably relevant when it was England's last match before this series and WI were chasing in the 4th innings like NZ.

I don't often say this but THANK YOU!!..i really can't believe i'm getting stick like this. All i'm talking about was the different approaches both teams took in their respective chases. The two rookies blunting the ball for 13 overs meant the middle order was in way less danger. But Guptil and Latham coming out swinging and getting out in virtually one over meant the NZ middle order were pretty much opening and that's what caused massive problems for them. If Guptil and Latham hang around for just eight overs NZ most likely draw the game...that was my point.

 

[Athlai]

So you agree with Guptil and Latham going out there swinging from the first ball Athlai?