*Official* New Zealand in England 2015

[Bahnz]

And they did! Deadset Cook's knock is an epic, and this is one of the best England home wins for a while. Definitely the best outside of an Ashes for a long time imo.

Yeah, probably their best home win since this one.

2nd Test: England v New Zealand at Manchester, May 23-26, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Antihippy]

Yeah, but that's because NZ approached the series in a more intelligent fashion, not because they're the better team. We pitched the ball fuller, batted more sensibly and didn't make panicked changes with little/no reason behind them. Australia just tried the exact same approach that had worked for them in Aus and SA in completely different conditions, and unsurprisingly it didn't work out so well. Maybe that makes NZ a more flexible team than Aus, but it doesn't make them a better one.

I would count being more flexible as being better honestly.

I dunno, from my point of view aus batting < NZ batting while aus bowling > NZ bowling, but it's not by huge margins either way.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah Australia are better than NZ by a bit but they really aren't that Good. Got problems in their batting. SA are the only great side in world cricket right now and even they have a few holes.

 

[Flem274*]

We're better than Aus in some countries but not in the two that matter

 

[Zinzan]

Not saying it does work like that but if a team is unbeaten in two years and get to 3rd in the rankings why shouldn't they be aiming to win?

Funny, I expected to come to see a sudden plethora of posts from you today. You didn't disappoint.

 

[Athlai]

We're better than Aus in some countries but not in the two that matter

Haha nice line.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah, probably their best home win since this one.

2nd Test: England v New Zealand at Manchester, May 23-26, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

That was a good win but this was better. We didn't really pay all that badly, a bit of luck and some quality play gave England the victory. Victory was won over sessions, not due to bad players playing badly.

Only 2008 Taylor and 2008 Vettori make a case for making the current NZ team and I'd keep 2015 Taylor.

 

[Bahnz]

That was a good win but this was better. We didn't really pay all that badly, a bit of luck and some quality play gave England the victory. Victory was won over sessions, not due to bad players playing badly.

Only 2008 Taylor and 2008 Vettori make a case for making the current NZ team and I'd keep 2015 Taylor.

As exciting as Henry is, I'd take the more reliable O'Brilliant over him any day of the week, and not just because I'm a Wellington poster.

 

[Grasshopper]

Well done to England on a fantastic fightback for the win.

 

[Zinzan]

We're better than Aus in some countries but not in the two that matter

I wouldn't read too much into those back to back series against Pak in the UAE late last year. The 3rd test was hardly 'normal circumstances' to be fair. But granted, even if we do give NZ the UAE based on that... what other countries are we better than them in?

 

[Athlai]

As exciting as Henry is, I'd take the more reliable O'Brilliant over him any day of the week, and not just because I'm a Wellington poster.

O'Brien was great on that tour too. He'd possibly make it, but I don't think it's that big a loss either way.

 

[RxGM]

That was a good win but this was better. We didn't really pay all that badly, a bit of luck and some quality play gave England the victory. Victory was won over sessions, not due to bad players playing badly.

Only 2008 Taylor and 2008 Vettori make a case for making the current NZ team and I'd keep 2015 Taylor.

This team would be phenomenal with 2008 Vettori over the last two years.

 

[SteveNZ]

As exciting as Henry is, I'd take the more reliable O'Brilliant over him any day of the week, and not just because I'm a Wellington poster.

With this side, on an ongoing basis, absolutely. Maybe - maybe - you'd take Henry in England but hardly anywhere else.

 

[Zinzan]

That was a good win but this was better. We didn't really pay all that badly, a bit of luck and some quality play gave England the victory. Victory was won over sessions, not due to bad players playing badly.

Only 2008 Taylor and 2008 Vettori make a case for making the current NZ team and I'd keep 2015 Taylor.

You'd more than make the 'case' for Vettori. He got a couple of cheap 5-fers in that '08 tout IIRC.

 

[Athlai]

Could you imagine Vettori buying us an extra 8 or so overs today and having O'Brien at 11, blocked out the last ball of the day with his knackers? Would be glorious.

 

[Zinzan]

I can't be arsed checking now, but in the 10 or so test we've played in England since 2004, I swear we've been in winning/dominant positions in 4-5 of them, only to fall over at the last. Seems such a momentum thing for us in England.

 

[Bahnz]

I can't be arsed checking now, but in the 10 or so test we've played in England since 2004, I swear we've been in winning/dominant positions in 4-5 of them, only to fall over at the last. Seems such a momentum thing for us in England.

Yeah, in order:

2004
1st test - set England 290 to win on day 5 - bowled pies and lost.
2nd test - scored 400 plus on a tough batting pitch, but then bowled pies to let England somehow score 500 even as the pitch became a minefield, before finally being skittled for 100 in our second innings.
3rd test - Got a strong first innings lead and made an excellent start to our second innings, before the middle order folded and England scrapped their way home to win by 4 wickets.

2008
2nd test - the big one. 180 run first innings lead that we somehow contrived to lose.
3rd test - had England 90/5 shortly after lunch on day 1, but let them run up 360, before folding twice.

2013
1st test - held the edge for most of the test until spectacularly imploding on the 4th morning.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I can't be arsed checking now, but in the 10 or so test we've played in England since 2004, I swear we've been in winning/dominant positions in 4-5 of them, only to fall over at the last. Seems such a momentum thing for us in England.

Yeah, in order:

2004
1st test - set England 290 to win on day 5 - bowled pies and lost.
2nd test - scored 400 plus on a tough batting pitch, but then bowled pies to let England somehow score 500 even as the pitch became a minefield, before finally being skittled for 100 in our second innings.
3rd test - Got a strong first innings lead and made an excellent start to our second innings, before the middle order folded and England scrapped their way home to win by 4 wickets.

2008
2nd test - the big one. 180 run first innings lead that we somehow contrived to lose.
3rd test - had England 90/5 shortly after lunch on day 1, but let them run up 360, before folding twice.

2013
1st test - held the edge for most of the test until spectacularly imploding on the 4th morning.

That's basically how almost our entire overseas record of the last year or so reads.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I can't be arsed checking now, but in the 10 or so test we've played in England since 2004, I swear we've been in winning/dominant positions in 4-5 of them, only to fall over at the last. Seems such a momentum thing for us in England.

I reckon England have a psychological edge in Test cricket as they are used to playing 5 day games, whereas we are not. So often superior skill takes us ahead by the end of Day 3 and then we seem to lose it mentally, esp. against Australia and England.

Dream victory for any England supporter this Test, came from behind on a number of occasions. Immense disappointment for NZ, just couldn't put them away despite playing ourselves into the lead.

It can't be often that you take 20 wickets and score 500+ in your first innings and lose.

The question now is: can England play that well two times in a row?

 

[Zinzan]

Yup, mostly due to bad days 4 & 5..