***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh

[Bahnz]

So New Zealand finally splutter across the line. It's been a pleasing final chase, but those last few overs really summed up our performance in the match overall.

 

[NZTailender]

Well, that was a certainly close one lads. This series has been much tougher than I or most people were expecting.
Full credit to Bangladesh for out performing us for half of this match, but it was great to see our guys knuckle down hard and do things properly in the end.

Quite a few questions need to be asked though, obviously. We really need to iron out a lot if we want to compete with Australia next month.

 

[Natman20]

I think it'd be worth giving Oram a run at 5. I'm starting to get less and less confident about his worth in the team.
As it is his job is to be a lower order bat and the 5th bowler - an all-rounder, really. Except the problem is neither of his disciplines are here nor there in test cricket.
While he's God-like at home with the ball, averaging 22, it balloons to 40+ overseas.
While he can keep it tight (he's bowled some incredibly miserly cricket in the past year), he doesn't seem to have enough to be considered a genuine wicket taker.
He's also inconsistent with the bat, though pulls out a spectacular, often match saving, century out of his arse every now and then, and generally makes 1 score of note per series.

I disagree about his bowling overseas. I think he looks best when he bowls in the subcontinent. For some reason when I see his bowling there eg. Champions trophy a couple years ago it looks as if it all comes together and really is good bowling. When he bowls in New Zealand conditions on NZ pitches it always apears as if he pitches too short.

His consistency with ball maybe not taking wickets but keeping it economical is still vital to our team and builds pressure. If you have him and Vettori bowling alongside each other the run-rate will drop and there is more pressure to score. Even in Tests.
Imo his batting works well in pressure situations. He is the one to scrape NZ through on occassions.

 

[Bahnz]

Haha Flynn. All the hard work, so close to your first milestone then gone!

Well done though, made up for his first innings blob.

He actually scored 19 in the first innings. Oram got the duck.

 

[NZTailender]

I'd drop one of the batsmen TBH. I don't have a great deal of faith in Flynn despite this innings and Ryder has his problems too. I know batting is the problem as such but trying to fix that by carrying batsmen who plain and simply aren't very good isn't going to work - allowing Vettori to put slightly more of a stamp on the game with his batting up the order a place or two would be worth the gamble if Franklin was fit IMO because Franklin's quite a decent batsman himself.

I'd leave the team as is for now but I'd be looking towards Franklin coming in for Flynn/Ryder when he proves his bowling fitness.

See my other post but I think the specialist batsmen should only be dropped for other specialist bats. If Flynn were to be dropped it should be for Fulton, or if not him then Broom or Hay.

And Franklin will probably need the entire NZ domestic season to get himself back into recognition. Can see him playing versus India but no earlier.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Haha Flynn. All the hard work, so close to your first milestone then gone!

Thats exactly what happened last time he got to 49.

 

[NZTailender]

He actually scored 19 in the first innings. Oram got the duck.

Yeah, but he got out pretty softly though? Can't remember.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, but he got out pretty softly though? Can't remember.

Just nicked one to the keeper. No where near as awful as Oram and McCullum's dismissals.

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah, his skill level and technique is obviously inferior to someone like Taylor or How, but actually getting the runs is what counts and he's done that. I think he's more likely to do it in the near future as well. I'd be highly surprised if that didn't change but it's true as it stands, for mine.

Yeah, but changing someones role can have a big impact on their mental game. Changing someone from a bowling all-rounder to a batting all-rounder may seem like a trivial word change but giving someone the duties of someone who is a specialist can really effect the way someone performs - case point being Shane Watson with opening, or Flintoff batting at 3, or Dan Vettori himself against Sri Lanka not long ago.
I know it was ODIs and ODI and Test performance are vastly different but he specifically moved himself up the order for greater batting responsibility and failed.

He's doing superbly where he is and I don't think he should go any higher than 7, if at all.

 

[NZTailender]

Just nicked one to the keeper. No where near as awful as Oram and McCullum's dismissals.

Must be confusing him with someone else. My bad.

 

[_Ed_]

Flynn impressed me today. Until he made a knob of himself getting out on 49 after Oram bent over backwards to give him a chance to get to 50, at least.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, but changing someones role can have a big impact on their mental game. Changing someone from a bowling all-rounder to a batting all-rounder may seem like a trivial word change but giving someone the duties of someone who is a specialist can really effect the way someone performs - case point being Shane Watson with opening, or Flintoff batting at 3, or Dan Vettori himself against Sri Lanka not long ago.
I know it was ODIs and ODI and Test performance are vastly different but he specifically moved himself up the order for greater batting responsibility and failed.

He's doing superbly where he is and I don't think he should go any higher than 7, if at all.

Yeah, I'm not really advocating moving him (unless Franklin comes back, at which point I'd only move him to 7 anyway) but I think his batting needs to be given more credit. The fact that he's batting 8 doesn't make him a lesser player if he's still contributing a batsman's regularly, particularly given the scorelines when he comes in.

 

[NZTailender]

I didn't have any coverage but dropping O'Brien would seem exceedingly harsh for mine considering he seemed to be NZ's second best bowler in this game...

With the pitches, I doubt that we would go in without a spinner.

And O'Brien has done nothing wrong, and doesn't deserve to be dropped.

Agreed, the bowling wasn't a major issue. I imagine Southee will play in the tour game versus (IIRC) NSW in Australia, and should decide from there whether he'll play or not.

Don't see too much point in bringing him in for the second test, especially since no one in the current attack deserves to be dropped (except maybe Oram )

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah, I'm not really advocating moving him (unless Franklin comes back, at which point I'd only move him to 7 anyway) but I think his batting needs to be given more credit. The fact that he's batting 8 doesn't make him a lesser player if he's still contributing a batsman's regularly, particularly given the scorelines when he comes in.

Oh, indeed. His batting in contribution and worth to the team is probably underrated but his actual batting ability is probably overrated because of that.

He's scored most of his runs at 8 in basically the situations you'd expect someone in that position to face.
And while I acknowledge that you personally wouldn't put him higher than 7, I'm saying in general to those who'd want him higher that if you move him up expecting to make runs in the process of making a decent total like that of a specialist bat, you wouldn't get the same out of him as we do when he's trying to save an innings or build further on an already established score.

 

[NZTailender]

I disagree about his bowling overseas. I think he looks best when he bowls in the subcontinent. For some reason when I see his bowling there eg. Champions trophy a couple years ago it looks as if it all comes together and really is good bowling. When he bowls in New Zealand conditions on NZ pitches it always apears as if he pitches too short.

His consistency with ball maybe not taking wickets but keeping it economical is still vital to our team and builds pressure. If you have him and Vettori bowling alongside each other the run-rate will drop and there is more pressure to score. Even in Tests.
Imo his batting works well in pressure situations. He is the one to scrape NZ through on occassions.

He looks okay overseas but he doesn't have enough to be considered a real threat outside of containing. Sometimes there are bowlers who are simply ineffective because they're poor, and then there are bowlers who take wickets because they are threatening, and then you have the bowlers who aren't threatening enough to take wickets, but aren't poor enough to be dispatched easily around the ground. That's what Oram is.

I actually made a mistake too with his figures, saying he averages 40+ overseas. He actually averages 58 overseas with the ball, taking 22 less wickets than he has at home, yet has bowled over 70 overs more away from home. His saving grace is an economy rate of 2.51 (compared to just 2.15 at home).

Basically, I don't think we can rely on him for wickets overseas, and given we don't have the best attack in the world to try and get 20 wickets in a match, perhaps his role needs to be changed to that of a more specialist bat so we can get more out of him than we currently do.

 

[Prince EWS]

I disagree about his bowling overseas. I think he looks best when he bowls in the subcontinent. For some reason when I see his bowling there eg. Champions trophy a couple years ago it looks as if it all comes together and really is good bowling. When he bowls in New Zealand conditions on NZ pitches it always apears as if he pitches too short.

Somewhat true in one day cricket - not really true at all in Test cricket. Probably because subcontinental pitches in one day cricket have been much more seam-friendly than anywhere else for whatever reason despite remaining either flat or turners for Tests. On a true seamer, Oram is Test class as a specialist bowler. On anything else, he's good at making sure the pressure isn't released but isn't really at all threatening: he's basically just Nathan Astle on your typical Test wicket.

His Test record with the bat was quite excellent until very recently (hell it's still pretty damn good) and it surprised me that McCullum was promoted ahead of him based on a couple of innings in domestic cricket and some success as a hitter in ODIs. Oram is by far the better batsman at First Class/Test level and I think he'd thrive more on the responsibility of batting 5. I said so at the time and I stand by it now.

 

[andruid]

I reckon Bangladesh's top order cost them the match in the long run

 

[Polo23]

Firstly, that was a pretty good escape from NZ. But the batting failures against decent spin bowling shouldnt be overlooked...and neither should the inept umpiring by Asoka De Silva, can anyone tell me why he was put back on the "elite" (what a joke) panel?

Also, I reckon the Bangladeshi's should cop a fine for over appealing, it was absolutely shocking today. They were appealing for LBW's that wouldnt even have hit another set of stumps and for caught behinds the batsmen missed by 6 inches. Really poor sportsmanship, if nothing else.

I wouldnt mind seeing Southee come in for Mills. Mills really struggled with the heat and went off the boil a bit because of it. Giving him a rest before the Aussie series (where he will likely do a lot of bowling) might not be a bad idea either.

Vettori saved our arse big time, with bat and ball. What a player. I reckon his all-round game has improved with the captaincy. He seems to be really motivated to lead from the front.

Flynn throws away another half century..how many batsmen do we need that throw their wicket away when they get close to a milestone?

 

[_Ed_]

Really poor sportsmanship, if nothing else.

I don't really agree with that, I think they were just a bit excited. They showed some great sportsmanship today - at least 3 players went and congratulated Vettori after he got out.

 

[andruid]

Also, I reckon the Bangladeshi's should cop a fine for over appealing, it was absolutely shocking today. They were appealing for LBW's that wouldnt even have hit another set of stumps and for caught behinds the batsmen missed by 6 inches. Really poor sportsmanship, if nothing else.

C'mon the buggers have yet to win a test match in 8 years they must have been desperate, near delirious to close this one out.