*Official* New Zealand in Australia 2019/20

[Jezroy]

Is that for their entire careers, or just since Santner made his debut? Because when I looked up their records in matches not involving Mitch Santner since 26 November 2015 (i.e. Santner's debut), I found that Wagner averages 24.6, Southee 24.58 and Boult 25.15 - so really not a substantive difference (and on balance probably slightly better) without Mitch.

**** that's some great numbers from Soultner over the last 4 years.

 

[ataraxia]

Is that for their entire careers, or just since Santner made his debut? Because when I looked up their records in matches not involving Mitch Santner since 26 November 2015 (i.e. Santner's debut), I found that Wagner averages 24.6, Southee 24.58 and Boult 25.15 - so really not a substantive difference (and on balance probably slightly better) without Mitch.

 

[Mike5181]

1.Tom Latham
2. Glenn Phillips
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Henry Nicholls
6. BJ Watling+
7. Collin de Grandhomme
8. Todd Astle
9. Tim Southee
10. Neil Wagner
11. Trent Boult

I think you throw that team out there for the next game, with Phillips replacing Ferguson in the squad. I'm not sure anyone's talked about him as an option but he did just score 150 odd runs in the first-class game against England batting at number 3, and just in general looks to be in really good form. Either him or Tim Seifert would be an upgrade on Raval.

Quietly confident Tom Blundell would score some runs over there but it's hard to find room for him, it's only been one bad game from an otherwise good batting line-up.

 

[ataraxia]

1.Tom Latham
2. Glenn Phillips
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Henry Nicholls
6. BJ Watling+
7. Collin de Grandhomme
8. Todd Astle
9. Tim Southee
10. Neil Wagner
11. Trent Boult

I think you throw that team out there for the next game, with Phillips replacing Ferguson in the squad. I'm not sure anyone's talked about him as an option but he did just score 150 odd runs in the first-class game against England batting at number 3, and just in general looks to be in really good form. Either him or Tim Seifert would be an upgrade on Raval.

Quietly confident Tom Blundell would score some runs over there but it's hard to find room for him, it's only been one bad game from an otherwise good batting line-up.

Not going to happen by any stretch but I sure hope it does. Think Santner's a better choice than Astle slightly I think but Phillips is a very good call.

 

[Immenso]

It's not an option that Phillips himself (or his Auckland coach) seem to be taking seriously. Never opened a FC game in his life.

Neither had Vincent 18 years ago, but Vincent just happened to be the man already on the spot. The equivalent I guess would be if Blundell were to open next test.

 

[Immenso]

If I was to replace Santner, I would replace him with a specialist batsman. From within the squad that is Blundell. But then Blundell may be playing anyway for Raval ......

So, not fussed if they replace him with Astle or Henry. I don't think that would strengthen the team.

Astle would be a prayer. Guy hasn't bowled enough last 2 years. Curse of combined injury problems and fringe blackcap multi-format selections = not enough FC cricket.

Henry would just be a RFM Santner. Maybe slighly more expensive.

But not going to happen with Kane's dodgy body.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Doesn't Kane still chuck it anyway?

 

[ataraxia]

Doesn't Kane still chuck it anyway?

Don't think so.

 

[vcs]

The thing with Santner is I don't see him scoring too many or even sticking around very long with the bat for the rest of the series because the Aussie quicks will be all over him with the short ball. Might as well pick a spinner who's likelier to provide a wicket-taking threat.

 

[Daemon]

This is wrong. Last year India and in 2010/11 England both had spinners playing vital roles in winning performances. They only way you can win games in Australia without a spinner who can at least contribute is if you've got 1+ ATG fast bowlers (Steyn, Ambrose, Hadlee etc). And by the way, I'm not talking about rattling through opposition sides a la Shane Warne or Stuart MacGill at the SCG. But a spinner who can take a few wickets here and there is essential as there are times when conditions will favour that spin, and you can't just sit on 0/140 off 40 overs and say "yep that'll do."

Furthermore, with CdG proving so able in the role of Gavin Larsen mk.2, I really think NZ can take a bit more of a risk in choosing who their spin bowler is. If you've got a guy who you can bank on bowling 12 overs for 30 (and maybe give you a sneaky wicket) each day, then if the spinner starts taking a bit of punishment then that represents much less of a problem.

Yep. Even Maharaj contributed with the ball when SA won.

I wouldn't pick Astle though, that guy's proper poo.

 

[Daemon]

This is wrong. Last year India and in 2010/11 England both had spinners playing vital roles in winning performances. They only way you can win games in Australia without a spinner who can at least contribute is if you've got 1+ ATG fast bowlers (Steyn, Ambrose, Hadlee etc). And by the way, I'm not talking about rattling through opposition sides a la Shane Warne or Stuart MacGill at the SCG. But a spinner who can take a few wickets here and there is essential as there are times when conditions will favour that spin, and you can't just sit on 0/140 off 40 overs and say "yep that'll do."

Furthermore, with CdG proving so able in the role of Gavin Larsen mk.2, I really think NZ can take a bit more of a risk in choosing who their spin bowler is. If you've got a guy who you can bank on bowling 12 overs for 30 (and maybe give you a sneaky wicket) each day, then if the spinner starts taking a bit of punishment then that represents much less of a problem.

Yep. Even Maharaj contributed with the ball when SA won.

I wouldn't pick Astle though, that guy's proper poo.

 

[morgieb]

Yep. Even Maharaj contributed with the ball when SA won.

I wouldn't pick Astle though, that guy's proper poo.

Hell, even RP did in 2012/13. I think Harris wasn't the worst in their 08/09 victory either.

 

[Mike5181]

With batting being our biggest problem, you have to send over a batsman to replace Ferguson in the squad. Blundell's not a top order player. That leaves you with Todd Astle as the only other spin option in the squad, and he's at least a much better first-class player than Santner.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Think I'm well due an apology to Southee. Was all aboard the "Tim is useless in Australia" train but he's a much smarter, more accurate bowler than back then even if he has lost 10kph of pace.

Reckon the smart selection for Melbourne would be Somerville. If we're going to take a test deep we'll need someone who can exploit the left armer rough, and he's likely to be just as economical as mitch. Given the record of touring leggies in aus I can't think of a worse selection than tastle.

 

[Flem274*]

tbh we just need to bat better. the middle order is proven around the world, they need to find a way. it's less technical incompetence and more the change from the england series motorways against broad, some guys inexperienced away from home and the mercenary sook to perth against an attack up for a scrap.

im a tastle fan but he should never play in australia. he'll go at 5 rpo. somerville or ajaz are the obvious options. cdg can do the vettori role with the added bonus of being able to find any spice in the pitch or the air and exploit it.

If only to see how Starc sledges him.

not a bad plan tbh. bad kuggs is gabriel level trash but motivated kuggs is scary, and when he gets sledged on certain topics...

but in a world cup that came down to bowling in the death overs maybe the bowler we actually can use in the final 10 might have given us a different result.

wrong
southee sucks at everything in odis, and in the wc we used boult, ferguson, neesham and some henry at the death. all of them did an excellent job. the bowling selection was perfect.

however, southee is an excellent test bowler. now that i have made this concession, it is time for you to be sensible and recognise he is no longer odi standard.

 

[Flem274*]

like seriously, when showing up to mt maunganui or hamilton if we loaned england our reserves of ferguson, henry, one of ajaz/somerville and i dunno, a quick like jamieson or tickner then they would have taken more wickets against nz than that english attack did.

broad is obviously a fantastic bowler and archer a talent but that unit has no idea how to bowl in nz and when it didn't go to plan for them then, with the exception of stokes and broad, they all just gave up.

if a cummins or whoever doesn't quite know where to bowl in a country he experiments and keeps trying.

 

[Jukesy]

Think I'm well due an apology to Southee. Was all aboard the "Tim is useless in Australia" train but he's a much smarter, more accurate bowler than back then even if he has lost 10kph of pace.

Reckon the smart selection for Melbourne would be Somerville. If we're going to take a test deep we'll need someone who can exploit the left armer rough, and he's likely to be just as economical as mitch. Given the record of touring leggies in aus I can't think of a worse selection than tastle.

after having a think about it i 100% agree.
sommerville played in australia for 4-5 years i think so he would have a good understanding of the conditions you would think.

 

[ataraxia]

There's no real point arguing over it now. If I had the selection reins I'd take Somers but I don't think we should be arguing upon a moot point here.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

like seriously, when showing up to mt maunganui or hamilton if we loaned england our reserves of ferguson, henry, one of ajaz/somerville and i dunno, a quick like jamieson or tickner then they would have taken more wickets against nz than that english attack did.

broad is obviously a fantastic bowler and archer a talent but that unit has no idea how to bowl in nz and when it didn't go to plan for them then, with the exception of stokes and broad, they all just gave up.

if a cummins or whoever doesn't quite know where to bowl in a country he experiments and keeps trying.

yeah can't recall a sookier bunch than that england squad. take a drink every time they mention the pitch.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Batsmen know when they face Santner, there is a low chance of them getting out. It's like a pressure relief (if you pardon the expression).

And the whole "he's tying up an end" thing is such a weak argument.

I don't think that's what happened. Santner bowled beautifully in the first innings during the Labuschagne/Smith partnership. He gave very little away and was a big part of why Smith struggled in this match. I doubt Patel or Somerville would have been as effective bowling to those 2.