FC matches 12
BBI=3/5 (good, but..)
Bowling average: 47.15
Economy rate=3.93
BBM: 5/173
SR=71.8
So basically, outside of maybe two games all up, we have a fast bowler who can barely bowl in a straight line, almost averages 50 with the ball, and has a strikerate of 70. Yet people such as Mark Richardson were creaming their pants at the prospect of him opening up our bowling. Not to mention the "anyone who bowls under 140kmh sucks" brigade, usually led by two certain posters on this forum and countless talkback callers, have this guy as their poster boy.
Sorry this is my first ever post o is probably out of line but i want to express my opinion to people who hopefully will appreciate it...
First Class
Season Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave
2007-08 432 11 275 3 1-65 91.66
2008-09 1866 42 1234 29 3-5 42.55
List A
Season Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave SRate Econ
2007-08 (New Zealand) 30 0 55 0 11.00
2008-09 (New Zealand) 410 5 411 13 3-72 31.61 31.53 6.01
From this and what i have heard from credible sources in Hawkes Bay you can see that McClenaghan had a terrible first season - one that many wouldnt bounce back from. From what i have been told throughout the season and through attending games i have heard that he changed his action from a Mitchell Johnson type action to a more fluent on over the winter and lost 15 kgs of his frame from the previous season just to help improve his cricket and perform better on the park.
Now maybe its just me but some one who can go away over the winter after this kind of debut season (including the pumbling he took from stephen fleming in his debut in List A - which i saw first had on a sunny basin reserve day infront of a packed crowd) and can come out and produce these figures comparitively and draw the attention of the nation selectors to getselected fo the emerging players game where incidently he took 5 - 36. and then selection for the NZ A side on the back of that - should we not be praising him instead of asking him to get up to first class standard.
DOes his ablility to improve that much over one off season show that he will be driven to improve further?? maybe its just me but it seems as though he is the kind of player who will do what ever it takes to improve?
New Zealand Emerging Players v England Lions, 1st day Report | Cricket News | Cricinfo Extracover | Cricinfo.com link for the game
Tour Match: New Zealand Emerging Players v England Lions at Lincoln, Feb 25-26, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com link for the score card
that has 6 wickets against England A - including 2 in the previous 2 day game and 2 for 96 in the NZ A game which is 10 wickets at an average around and probably less than 20 in basically 2 FC games vs international standard players who are better than nz domestic players....
Does this not show that he has more to offer than you are giving him credit for?
I would also like to pose the question to the readers of this forum - How many of you have seen McClenaghan Play??
I myself have seen him play 6 times 3 times in napier 2 times in wellington and 1 time in new plymouth.
ANd from my experiences of watching these games i would also go as far as to say that he creates more chances than any bowler i saw comparatively (alot of dropped catches) which could be why he is being talked up??
Yes he has been shown up by experienced players - often getting carried away and trying too much but may i say unless you have seen a player live more than once please reframe from commenting on their standard..
would like to leave you with this link to show that he cant not be of FC standard - note the amount of games played comparitively and where he would have been if all the games had been played.
New Zealand Cricket - MVP Points
thanks for reading i hope this is constructive to the discussion
Willow1
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***Official New Zealand Domestic Season Thread 2009/10
- Thread starter 204*
- Start date
argh stats came out rubbish and so did the quote hahaha
get my picture though they are from New Zealand Cricket - Welcome anyway under association players and season stats.
cheers
get my picture though they are from New Zealand Cricket - Welcome anyway under association players and season stats.
cheers
More than reasonable. First season he avged 91 (three games mind you) and second season he averaged 41. So he is improving and you can expect to see improvement further next year, for sure.
Don't worry, i'll return to eat humble pie if things don't go his way. But I'm backing him.
As for Hay, no contract doesn't=no game time. I'm picking he'll force his way in and probably make hay (boom chish) on flat ones in Napier and later in the season. All it takes is a How call-up to NZ, a couple of NZ A reps + injury and he gets a shot.
That is another good point
the pitches are getting flatter and slower and stats are not as reflective of good bowling
all most at the stage where wickets are more important than an average if mixed with the right supporting bowlers around you that are economical (ie Thompson, Diamanti and Mason)
Hay will make Hay when the sun shines in the future i agree - he is quality and a hard worker so im sure he will force his way back in there at some stage.
the pitches are getting flatter and slower and stats are not as reflective of good bowling
all most at the stage where wickets are more important than an average if mixed with the right supporting bowlers around you that are economical (ie Thompson, Diamanti and Mason)
Hay will make Hay when the sun shines in the future i agree - he is quality and a hard worker so im sure he will force his way back in there at some stage.
Hay would make pretty much any team in NZ buddy, I don't know what the heck you're going on about here. I can't believe the way he has been treated by CD tbh, it's fairly weak.
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Flem274*
123/5
Wrt to McClennaghan, those second season stats are better, but they're still not what you want of (presumably) your opening bowler, and apart from a few good spells they're still not FC standard. Tbh though I'd be surprised if that average doesn't come down more this season.
In short, no one is saying he can't be any good (disregard my rants against the bowling attack whenever CD lose a game please
), we're just saying that he isn't one of the best FC players yet and those who talk him up for international duties now (and in the past 6 or so months there have been a few both on and off forum) need to hold their horses.
And as for those flat pitches, that will be both good and bad. The good is we will be able to seperate the greentop bullies from the quality but the bad is players that average 35 will average a bit higher (and we run the risk of another Papps or Marshall being picked) and spinners will really struggle, so the likes of Tarun Nethula, Mark Houghton, Robbie Schaw and Nick Beard, all the young spinners in other words, will be up against it when they're trying to prove they should leap frog Jeetan Patel, who is much liked by selectors and media. In other words, Patel practically owns the second spinners possie, and the calls for him to be ahead of some of our seamers are helping him. He's proven he's a good offspinner, and he gets to defend his place against young spinners on unhelpful pitches.
In short, no one is saying he can't be any good (disregard my rants against the bowling attack whenever CD lose a game please
), we're just saying that he isn't one of the best FC players yet and those who talk him up for international duties now (and in the past 6 or so months there have been a few both on and off forum) need to hold their horses.And as for those flat pitches, that will be both good and bad. The good is we will be able to seperate the greentop bullies from the quality but the bad is players that average 35 will average a bit higher (and we run the risk of another Papps or Marshall being picked) and spinners will really struggle, so the likes of Tarun Nethula, Mark Houghton, Robbie Schaw and Nick Beard, all the young spinners in other words, will be up against it when they're trying to prove they should leap frog Jeetan Patel, who is much liked by selectors and media. In other words, Patel practically owns the second spinners possie, and the calls for him to be ahead of some of our seamers are helping him. He's proven he's a good offspinner, and he gets to defend his place against young spinners on unhelpful pitches.
Flem274*
123/5
Knew you'd post that.
Regardless of whether its true or not, Jeets will never leapfrog Vettori. If he did, our batting would fail even more...
_Ed_
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Disagree. Please, CD - if you don't want Hay, give him to us.
When's he going to score his first test match hundred?
Athlai
Not Terrible
Next match probably. Then we'll open him with Guptill and he'll become our captain.
Auckland is the one team Hay is definitely not getting a run in.
MacIntosh
Guptill
Kitchen
Styris
Young
Hopkins
DeGrandhomme
Mills
etc etc etc
Thats without Jones and Jeet Raval. Auck had 5 players average above 50 (off the top of my head last season) ..... God i hope im right with this outlandish statement...
If he was to try and become an opener then he could possibly make most of the teams around the country. But again his technique doesnt lend itself to that. (plays with an open blade with everything skewing off the outside half of the bat) which means any movement with the new ball and his a big nicker
Just a thought
MacIntosh
Guptill
Kitchen
Styris
Young
Hopkins
DeGrandhomme
Mills
etc etc etc
Thats without Jones and Jeet Raval. Auck had 5 players average above 50 (off the top of my head last season) ..... God i hope im right with this outlandish statement...
If he was to try and become an opener then he could possibly make most of the teams around the country. But again his technique doesnt lend itself to that. (plays with an open blade with everything skewing off the outside half of the bat) which means any movement with the new ball and his a big nicker
Just a thought
trapol - your argument of "Hay couldn't score a run last season because he can't hit a ball in front of square" seems a little far-fetched.
Now i've never seen the bloke play with my own eyes but I can't imagine anyone would make it all the way through the grades up the FC cricket without being able to hit a ball in front of square, then average over 50 for 2 seasons in FC cricket and also average over 40 in List A cricket. Especially when generally the bowlers in NZ aren't that quick and the tendency is to bowl fuller rather than shorter. I just can't see how he would prosper so heavily for 2 whole seasons if what you say is true. If it is the case, it is a huge blight of the bowlers and coaches around the country that took 2 seasons to work it out.
Theres a difference between having a backfoot orientated game (which I believe Hay has) and not being able to score a run in front of square.
Now i've never seen the bloke play with my own eyes but I can't imagine anyone would make it all the way through the grades up the FC cricket without being able to hit a ball in front of square, then average over 50 for 2 seasons in FC cricket and also average over 40 in List A cricket. Especially when generally the bowlers in NZ aren't that quick and the tendency is to bowl fuller rather than shorter. I just can't see how he would prosper so heavily for 2 whole seasons if what you say is true. If it is the case, it is a huge blight of the bowlers and coaches around the country that took 2 seasons to work it out.
Theres a difference between having a backfoot orientated game (which I believe Hay has) and not being able to score a run in front of square.
Days of Grace
International Captain
Can anyone tell me when NZ A is touring India?
Flem274*
123/5
Greg Hay in top form would stroll in. Young? De Grandhomme? Kitchen at number 3? Pfft
I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, I really did. But now I cannot believe how anyone can take you seriously.
It can't be a CD bias because Hay and McClenaghan play for the same team. You've just landed a pffft in front of Kitchen's name and I presume you meant the same for de Grandhomme and Young.
Kitchen..averages 55. Scored three tons in his debut season. Is strong off both front and back foot and has many more shots than Hay. Plus is a crackerjack fielder.
de Grandhomme. Granted not the most consistent, but scored back-to-back tons last season. And would not be in competition with Hay as he is a #6/7. Also bowls one of the heaviest balls in FC cricket.
Young. An underachiever in his early years but has shone recently. Averaged over 50 last season with two tons, and is the best out and out gloveman in the country.
All three of those guys are capable of playing all three forms just as proficiently. Hay is not.
Best wicketkeeper in the country, you must be joking?