**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Hurricane]

Yeah, Sodhi's action is pretty weak, and I can't imagine he could look to put more work into it without even further reducing his accuracy.

Disagree with those who say that Sodhi has to be persisted with. He's already had 5 tests against two of the weakest batting lineups in test cricket and he clearly hasn't made the grade. Bowling 7 overs and getting 0/51 will be of no benefit to him whatsoever.

I am not going back to read past posts as it will be many pages of reading - who are you advocating for his spot if you don't mind repeating yourself?

 

[Flem274*]

they're going to try and make a broad out of him imo. i don't know how broad's statistics stacked up prior to debut but he was tripe for a year or so before bowling well without reward in the west indies and then coming good in the 2009 ashes. im not saying sodhi will manage the same but that's the sort of time period we're looking at imo. they will want to take him to turning decks in the west indies at the very least and i think we're going to the UAE and sri lanka this year as well.

 

[Bahnz]

He (Ish) appears to be the best spinner in the country so the job goes to him.

He absolutely is not. He's not even the best leg spinner. As Blocky points out, he's not even the best spinner from ND.

 

[Hurricane]

He absolutely is not. He's not even the best leg spinner. As Blocky points out, he's not even the best spinner from ND.

I am not going back to read past posts as it will be many pages of reading - who are you advocating for his spot if you don't mind repeating yourself?

....

 

[Bahnz]

If you're determined to include a spinner (which in New Zealand is in no way necessary - that's right Flem I've officially joined the 'pick-4-seamerz' club) then you've got several options.

a) If you want the bowler most likely to do a quasi-acceptable job you go with Patel

b) If you want an OMGZ he ripsit! bowler then you go with Astle

c) If you want a project who's struggled initially but has started to show the ability to get domestics out then you go with someone like Craig.

Or, once again, you go with 4 seamers. Which is what New Zealand absolutely should do - especially against India. ****, at this point I'd probably just about pick NcCullum ahead of Sodhi. At least he could probably be relied upon to bowl darts and get 0/50 off 20 overs.

 

[Bahnz]

they're going to try and make a broad out of him imo. i don't know how broad's statistics stacked up prior to debut but he was tripe for a year or so before bowling well without reward in the west indies and then coming good in the 2009 ashes. im not saying sodhi will manage the same but that's the sort of time period we're looking at imo. they will want to take him to turning decks in the west indies at the very least and i think we're going to the UAE and sri lanka this year as well.

Well, I think we'll have to carry Sodhi for longer than England carried Broad, and in the interim his results are likely to be worse than a mid-40's average.

 

[Flem274*]

He absolutely is not. He's not even the best leg spinner. As Blocky points out, he's not even the best spinner from ND.

jono boult isn't better than him at either discipline. reserving judgement on santner. vettori obvz the best spinner this country has ever had but we can't pick him.

been sitting on nccullum and craig. ive noticed no one has ever said a bad word about craig despite him only hitting form this season and he seems to be making the odd nz eleven. nccullum's stats are not pretty but if we want someone to fill a spot then....he might be it. i think it would be waving the white flag while still trying to have a gander though. would rather play sodhi or another young spinner and actually try.

 

[Bahnz]

I was referring to KW.

 

[Flem274*]

forgot about him. tbf KW is probably the best spinner in the country. we're that bad, and history says Dan and Braces are the exceptions.

i think i floated the idea before but a classic kiwi dibbly dobbly who can bowl and bowl and bowl cute cutters or whatever and 2 rpo and hold a bat and field is probably more useful than most of our spin bowling options. bring back chris harris.

 

[Hurricane]

If you're determined to include a spinner (which in New Zealand is in no way necessary - that's right Flem I've officially joined the 'pick-4-seamerz' club) then you've got several options.

a) If you want the bowler most likely to do a quasi-acceptable job you go with Patel

b) If you want an OMGZ he ripsit! bowler then you go with Astle

c) If you want a project who's struggled initially but has started to show the ability to get domestics out then you go with someone like Craig.

Or, once again, you go with 4 seamers. Which is what New Zealand absolutely should do - especially against India. ****, at this point I'd probably just about pick NcCullum ahead of Sodhi. At least he could probably be re lied upon to bowl darts and get 0/50 off 20 overs.

Thanks for your comprehensive answer.

None of those three spinners are realistically in the running even if they should be. I could tell you why but you already know the answers already.
They will not go with 4 seamers. It puts too much on to Kane if it turns or we need to get through overs.

 

[Blocky]

no, it's because you don't understand where the topic of conversation is heading.

I.e. "Wagner's performance is going to be critical in this series and he needs to do better than what he's done in his career, because otherwise he's a major weak link"

and then you start talking about how good Wagner is. I.e. not the topic at hand.

So you're about as good at sticking to "ignore list" as you are statistics I see, if your viewpoint was the actual discussion, why were his statistics questioned again and again until I actually had to bring them out of Cricinfo and show them? Don't change your argument after it's been made moot.

The Broad vs Sodhi debate makes me laugh a little - the reason Broad was persisted with (After being dropped for a time) was that his assets were plain to see and many felt he was unlucky to not be picking up a lot more wickets, he had pace, he had height and he had assets that you could plainly see, even during the initial period he was bowling spells for England that looked unplayable so they stuck with him and matured him, similar to how we've done with Southee where he went from being deeply inconsistent but brilliant on his day, to a lot more consistent.

With Sodhi, you don't have any inclination (until ironically his most recent performance against Canterbury) that talent was there and that he could rip through sides. He didn't have particularly great statistics for an U19 and U21 player and as we've discussed, he's not even the best spinner in his county on pure performance statistics. But this country has a habit of wanting a leg spinner and we've tried some terrible options - Astle (no domestic performance, although sounder than Sodhi solely due to his batting), Loveridge, Nethula, Walker. I can't actually think of a leg spinner who hasn't had a trundle for NZ.

Sodhi doesn't have a massively turning leg break, at least not one he can consistently bowl and land. I'll give him due credit and say that he has a pretty good wrong'un but top order players don't seem to have any issue picking him, his arm action which has been covered is much too high to get the type of dip and spin that players like Mushtaq Ahmed and Kaneria get (not to mention Muirhead) and he still struggles to land more than four deliveries an over. So far he's played against Bangladesh in Bangladesh and West Indies here at home, neither nation have world class batsmen with the exception of Chanderpaul and maybe if we're being kind, Darren Bravo - and neither nation offered wickets up to Sodhi for less than 50 at a run rate near four.

To be honest, I see more potential for Sodhi developing into a batting all rounder than I do a bowler, but he has a hard road there because there are three players in ND that are probably better than he is with a fourth setting all sorts of youth records for HBHS. I would be highly surprised if India didn't butcher him out of the attack, the only reason they won't is if they figure out that keeping him at four an over might mean he bowls more than 10 in an innings. The selection really makes me wonder why they've gone for him, because there is nothing there than indicates he'll trouble India and India are probably the worst team to throw a new spinner at.

And the "Give me a spinner who is better" - there already is one in the NZ side in Williamson. Potentially two considering Ryder seemed to land every single offie he bowled in the T20 match

 

[Flem274*]

guptill took 3/34 or something once against pakistan. ross taylor has a couple of wickets somewhere.

just sayin'

 

[Bahnz]

Harry always reckoned he was a leggy anyway.

 

[Hurricane]

i think i floated the idea before but a classic kiwi dibbly dobbly who can bowl and bowl and bowl cute cutters or whatever and 2 rpo and hold a bat and field is probably more useful than most of our spin bowling options. bring back chris harris.

I wouldn't mind some gavin larsen guy off 6 steps. What I object to is 4 guys with run ups from where the 30 yard circle would be and Anderson.

 

[Blocky]

I wouldn't mind some gavin larsen guy off 6 steps. What I object to is 4 guys with run ups from where the 30 yard circle would be and Anderson.

So drop Sodhi and play Ryder, tell him to come in off his five pace run and bowl 115-120kmh dobblies.

 

[Bahnz]

Thanks for your comprehensive answer.

They will not go with 4 seamers. It puts too much on to Kane if it turns or we need to get through overs.

I've got it! We get Jimmy Neesham in to bowl his 4 step 135k dobblies! That way we get a 4th seamer and a bowler who only gets through an over every 2 minutes!

Seriously though, if the pitch turns we're ****ed anyway. As for the overrates, nobody cared when England bowled about 80 overs in the final test at Sydney so I doubt they'll care about us doing the same at Auckland. I know they won't go with 4 seamers - especially now that they've picked Bracewell. Doesn't change the fact that it's the right way to go though.

 

[Flem274*]

ellis to shorten his run up even further

 

[Bahnz]

So drop Sodhi and play Ryder, tell him to come in off his five pace run and bowl 115-120kmh dobblies.

If we could field a 3rd seamer of Southee and Boult's quality this would be a legitimately excellent idea.

 

[Dan]

If we could field a 3rd seamer of Southee and Boult's quality this would be a legitimately excellent idea.

1. Fulton
2. Rutherford
3. Williamson (6/5)
4. Taylor
5. Ryder (5/6)
6. Anderson (4)
7. Watling +
8. McCullum*
9. Southee
10. Henry
11. Boult

Specialist captains FTW

 

[Athlai]

Guptill
McCullum
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Anderson
Watling (+)
Southee
Wagner
Boult

Insert a Wellington player of your choice.

Top XI, would go far.