***Official NBA Thread***

[Fusion]

Vomit

 

[Ikki]

Fair enough about the Jordan shot, I disagree with you but all points are reasonably fair.

You're underrating the Magic skyhook in difficulty (have ever tried to do a running skyhook? it's ****ing hard as ****) and whilst it was in "only" in game 4, it put them up 3-1 with two games left at hime and won the series for the Lakers. It was the most important shot of the most important decade in the history of the NBA, it put Magic above Bird in the all-time pantheon and secured his legacy as (at the time) one of the best two players of all time. I'd contend that in difficulty terms, Magic's shot was a harder shot, he was properly contested by one of the best power forwards ever and it was a shot even he admitted he'd never really practiced or tried before. Corner threes are one of the easiest and highest percentage shots in the NBA, and despite Tony Parker "contesting" Ray was wide open on it. There wasn't even a Spurs hand in the aiir. It was also in the Boston Garden, which at the time was a complete Lakers graveyard.

A hook is a hard shot, I agree, but if you actually learn it its still a higher percentage shot than a 3 pointer. Corner 3s are high percentage 3 point shots...I don't think they're actually high percentage shots overall though.

Disagree with the bolded. 87 was Magic's first year that he was considered above Bird but it was because until then Bird was much better during the all the years prior to that. Overall, it is still a debate amongst those two. What happened is that Bird's injuries affected him and the Lakers, who were already stacked, got James Worthy and won a couple more titles. Until 87 it was Bird getting the GOAT talk, Magic got into that discussion moreso after that - not at that precise moment though.
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Anyway, congrats Heat fans and congrats Lebron. What a series, what a performance by both teams.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Vomit

I'm coming down with the same thing that you have.

 

[Fusion]

To give the devil his due, Lebron was simply awesome. The best player in the planet proved his worth. The only players to win Championship and MVP in consecutive seasons: Russell, Jordan, and Lebron. It’s scary how high the ceiling is for him.

Also, Miami is now 11-1 in playoff series since the evil trinity of Lebron/Wade/Bosh joined forces. The only loss is to my little Mavs in 2011. The world can thank us for slowing down the inevitable.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I strongly disagree with a lot of that post Ikki but I honestly cannot be bothered with you, having any kind of conversation with you is exhausting and a complete waste of time, because you're never wrong and in your own eyes can never be proved so.

Today's game was amazing, felt genuinely gutted for Timmy and Manu in the pressers. You could tell that both blamed themselves so much. Basketball is awesome.

 

[nightprowler10]

Well played Miami in 2 crucial elimination games. Spurs had their chance in game 6 and completely blew it. Hopefully the Bulls will come in strong next season and end this run.

As much as I wanted Heat to lose, I really really wanted to see Timmy get his 5th chip. I was gutted when I saw this.

I welled up for real. Once its all said and done, I think Timmy will go down as the greatest PF ever over KG, Chuck, Malone, Dirk. I'll always maintain that he is the greatest overall from his generation over Kobe and Shaq.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

He already is the greatest PF ever, it's not even really that close.

 

[Riggins]

Yeah , he won this won and it takes even him to another stratosphere though. As it stands its conceivable someone could come along and take that belt from him in the not - to - distant future imo.

As for the mavs, they did it without any help from the officials. all the more credit to them.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Yeah , he won this won and it takes even him to another stratosphere though. As it stands its conceivable someone could come along and take that belt from him in the not - to - distant future imo.

At this point I'd definitely say Lebron is a threat to take it from him.

 

[Ikki]

I strongly disagree with a lot of that post Ikki but I honestly cannot be bothered with you, having any kind of conversation with you is exhausting and a complete waste of time, because you're never wrong and in your own eyes can never be proved so.

I love how you use this as a cop-out . I am not sure what you're even disagreeing with.

From 79-88 Magic was only voted above Bird in one season in MVP voting. They both debuted at the same time. In his Rookie year Bird turned around a Boston franchise from the 2nd worst team to the best regular season record. He came 4th in MVP voting that year and won the Rookie of the year award and Magic wasn't even close (it was a landslide for Bird). For the next 3 consecutive years Bird came 2nd in MVP voting and Magic featured in the top 5 only once (3rd) in the 82-83 vote. The next 3 years Bird wins the MVP voting becoming only the 3rd person in history to win 3 back-to-back - the other 2 being Wilt and Russell.

Now we're upto 86-87 (the finals in question), and this was the first year that Magic finished above Larry (who came 3rd). So, it wasn't a passing of the guard it was merely the emergence. The very next year Bird finished runner-up again (Jordan won it) and Magic came 3rd. So, you can see why people were discussing Bird as the GOAT in that time span - he was unbelievable in the toughest era in NBA history featuring arguably 4 of the top 5 players ever (Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Bird; then you had the likes of Malone, Dr J, Isiah and Hakeem, amongst others) - and not Magic. In fact, it took Magic till his 4th season to even be considered the best PG of the league/get into All-NBA 1st team.

So saying that this shot was the one that took him above Bird or that his first MVP year took him into the discussion of the top 2 players ever is pretty damn unlikely, and I've not heard this outside of you bringing it up. The irony is that for the majority of the time prior to this period Kareem was still considered the Lakers #1 guy. So, if you thought those reasons existed then you've given that shot more importance than it deserves.

If you are talking about the corner 3 point vs hook-shot difficulty; as you can see by this link, the corner 3 is a lower percentage shot than the high paint (.425 vs .450). Granted that it doesn't specifically regard the difficulty of a hook-shot from the high paint, it shows they're both pretty difficult shots - especially since Ray was hardly stationed there waiting and free. But the importance of the Magic skyhook and Ray Allen's 3 aren't that close because of all the above and the games in question in which they happened.

 

[Ikki]

Timmy is the best PF ever, but some part of me feels that if KG had gone to a better team (or inherited Duncan's) he could have had as good or possibly even better career.

 

[andruid]

Timmy is the best PF ever, but some part of me feels that if KG had gone to a better team (or inherited Duncan's) he could have had as good or possibly even better career.

Always wonder why nobody asks what about KG, or Karl Malone, of Mchale when Duncan is declared the best Power Forward ever. The Cs should have traded for KG sooner, he made them the Celtics again.

 

[nightprowler10]

At this point I'd definitely say Lebron is a threat to take it from him.

LeBron is a PF?



Yes I know what you meant.

 

[andruid]

Still consider him more a small forward who can play power forward myself. Though I can see he's way better at Power Forward than alot of Specialist Power Forwards

 

[Riggins]

yeah that's the thing. even though they played 'small ball' almost the whole season, he still spent the majority of his time with two other bigs on the floor, and they kept him defending the perimeter. Who knows where he'll finish in everyone's all time rankings, but he'll always be a perimeter player who can go inside to generate offense imo. (kinda similar to jordan on the low block in the second three-peat, where he did the majority of his work both scoring and creating from the post, but would always be considered an outside player)

i think the best indicator of a 'position' is where guys play defense. and yeah, lj can defend anyone, but spends the vast majority of the time defending wings and guards, and for me that's why he'll never go down as a pf. //irrelevant rant over.//

 

[Riggins]

now that the nba is finished up, if you want some basketball news i scored around 20 points tonight including the game winner. you're welcome.

 

[nightprowler10]

Man, I was really hoping that Deng trade for the Wizards pick and Okafor would gain more traction. I love Deng to bits but we're going to lose him for nothing next year unless he wants to take a significant pay cut. Plus we could've really used a decent backup for Noah in Okafor.

Bucks are supposedly interested in Pierce.

 

[Riggins]

i hope the celtics don't **** over pp. if they wanna rebuild and don't need him, just waive him. he's done enough for the cs.

 

[nightprowler10]

Noel to NOLA is itstl.

 

[Riggins]

well it was fun while it lasted anyway.