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**Official** NatWest Challenge Thread
- Thread starter Andre
- Start date
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Make that top 7.
Because he's a bowler, he can take a few risks, hit some big shots and not care too much about building an innings- there are 6 batsmen for that.
There's absolutely no harm in doing that- especially with someone like Pathan at hand. It's better than making a batsman out of Parthiv Patel, who can't hit a six. He has the talent, and it should be used well, before he loes practice and his batting fades away, the way that of Srinath and Kumble did.
Most importantly, it helps the team a lot when it comes off.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I don't think it is a matter of the team being wrong with India. IDK how many guys saw the ESPN/Star feed with Geoffrey Boycott and Sunil Gavaskar, but I think they made a lot of valid points. Geoffrey said that during his very brief consultant coaching stint with India during their camp at Chennai, he had advised the board to schedule OD matches between the Indian side and the Rest of India all over India. 5 ODs, he had said. The crowds would have come to see the stars of the Indian team, the Indians would have gotten match practice and would have got themselves match fit and some young contenders could have showed their worth, probably it would have been a good practice even for the India A side who went on another tour around the same time as the Asia Cup. Now, why was this not done?
Secondly, Geoffrey mentioned the fact that this team has quality players and as they all say quality just does not disappear overnight. The problem for India is that the only batsman who is in any form is Sachin and he is injured. Also, Indians cannot take time to get themselves into form as they might in a test. ODIs demand run scoring at a fast clip and in trying to do that, they are playing too many shots, too soon when they are out of form. That is why they are batting so poorly. So it really needs a LOT of hardwork at the nets, some committed effort in running between the wickets to keep the run rate going without playing big shots, some discipline and better shot selection, and last but not least, a bit of luck with the toss and a good pitch. Geoffrey said that the Oval would be a great track and the Indians need to get atleast two or three batsmen into form in that match. Sure, it might cost them this series but that is only a short term loss for long term gain, which would be the team's performance at the Champions trophy and in the six big test matches coming up.
Secondly, Geoffrey mentioned the fact that this team has quality players and as they all say quality just does not disappear overnight. The problem for India is that the only batsman who is in any form is Sachin and he is injured. Also, Indians cannot take time to get themselves into form as they might in a test. ODIs demand run scoring at a fast clip and in trying to do that, they are playing too many shots, too soon when they are out of form. That is why they are batting so poorly. So it really needs a LOT of hardwork at the nets, some committed effort in running between the wickets to keep the run rate going without playing big shots, some discipline and better shot selection, and last but not least, a bit of luck with the toss and a good pitch. Geoffrey said that the Oval would be a great track and the Indians need to get atleast two or three batsmen into form in that match. Sure, it might cost them this series but that is only a short term loss for long term gain, which would be the team's performance at the Champions trophy and in the six big test matches coming up.
Swervy
International Captain
Here is a quote from Ganguly, talking about Wharf yesterday:
"After seeing off Steve Harmison, Darren Gough and Andrew Flintoff, we were probably trying to dominate a bit too early because he(Wharfe) doesn't bowl at the same pace as those guys," said Ganguly.
A faint whiff of complacency there from Ganguly I think...maybe he needs to go back to basics...play each ball individually and on its own merits
"After seeing off Steve Harmison, Darren Gough and Andrew Flintoff, we were probably trying to dominate a bit too early because he(Wharfe) doesn't bowl at the same pace as those guys," said Ganguly.
A faint whiff of complacency there from Ganguly I think...maybe he needs to go back to basics...play each ball individually and on its own merits
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I think it is perfectly normal for an aggresive opener like Ganguly to try and take the attack to a new bowler in his first over. The fact that Wharf did well shows that he has got the stuff in him. But I think the problem was what batsmen after Sourav did. Sourav got us off to a great start along with Laxman and was trying to take advantage of a certain situation (the fielding restrictions, a new bowler who started off with a no ball) and got out in the attempt. It is not complacency, IMHO, it is just more of initiative, a failed iniatiative, yes but an initiative none the less. I am more disappointed by Dravid's shot.
Also, on another note, I remember a certain Pak bowler in the first ODI of the Indo-Pak series being hammered in his very first over, he really found it difficult from then on. So, the point is the thinking was the same both times. When it came off, people praised the Indian strategy and batting talent and when it didn't, they are blaming the same strategy and forgetting the same talent.
Also, on another note, I remember a certain Pak bowler in the first ODI of the Indo-Pak series being hammered in his very first over, he really found it difficult from then on. So, the point is the thinking was the same both times. When it came off, people praised the Indian strategy and batting talent and when it didn't, they are blaming the same strategy and forgetting the same talent.
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
India's Bowling may well be a worry, but i dont see how they can improve it - as for the batting, i'm sure they will click soon and then we will really see whether the bowling attack is that bad. I would bring in Khartik to keep, drop Ridersof and i'd like to see Ganguly bowl a bit in English conditions.
Neil Pickup
Request Your Custom Title Now!
As for Pathan batting up the order? Yes please, then he can prod and poke around against Giles some more and waste even more time. For me, weakening the batting line up when you've just been skittled for 170 *isn't* a good plan. But feel free.
In fact, why not open with Nehra and AA?
It's attitude, not talent that's the problem for India. If more of the top order had shown the application that Kaif had, then they'd have set a decent(er) target.
In fact, why not open with Nehra and AA?
It's attitude, not talent that's the problem for India. If more of the top order had shown the application that Kaif had, then they'd have set a decent(er) target.
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Dar
School Boy/Girl Captain
I was also terribly disappointed by Dravids shot after playing three beautiful boundaries it was so unlike him to get carried away. Ganguly really needs to take that pull shot out of his repetoire until he can play it well. He too was playing brilliantly until he handed his wicket to England on a plate. And as for Yuvraj getting run out going for a third of a no ball - words can't describe my anoyance over that. I actually think most of the batsman looked in good touch for the brief time at the crease but every single one of them threw their wickets at the wrong time. Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid and Kaif all looked good but there is no use looking good when your getting all out for 170 on a good enough batting track. Very disappointing performance lets hope they can recover cos they are running out of time.
Which one out of Kumble and Harbhajan do you all think should play. Kumble for some reason doesn't seem as good in one dayers as in tests recently. And if Agarkar plays who should he come in for? I think probably Nehra
Which one out of Kumble and Harbhajan do you all think should play. Kumble for some reason doesn't seem as good in one dayers as in tests recently. And if Agarkar plays who should he come in for? I think probably Nehra
adharcric
International Coach
Kumble should definitely be replaced by Harbhajan Singh. Since the long break from cricket, here is a comparison of their figures:
Kumble Avg: 48.0 Econ: 5.1
Harbhajan Avg: 39.8 Econ: 4.0
I think its quite obvious who should be in the one-day side as the lone spinner. As for Agarkar, he will have to come in for Nehra if he does get a place in the team, as Balaji and Pathan are secured in the team right now. Nehra allowed just under 4 an over in the last match though, not sure if he needs to be replaced. I would have said Kaif should be replaced with Karthik, but after that half-century amidst 10 other failures ... no. Karthik for Gavaskar, I guess they should try it out.
Kumble Avg: 48.0 Econ: 5.1
Harbhajan Avg: 39.8 Econ: 4.0
I think its quite obvious who should be in the one-day side as the lone spinner. As for Agarkar, he will have to come in for Nehra if he does get a place in the team, as Balaji and Pathan are secured in the team right now. Nehra allowed just under 4 an over in the last match though, not sure if he needs to be replaced. I would have said Kaif should be replaced with Karthik, but after that half-century amidst 10 other failures ... no. Karthik for Gavaskar, I guess they should try it out.
SpaceMonkey
International Debutant
You need Kaif also for his fielding...him and Singh are world class in a team full of crap fielders...if you lost one of them it would seriously damage you in that department.
masterblaster
International Captain
Agreed with the English here entirely. Dinesh Karthick has to play, a seventh batsman will not really work most of the time if the top 6 cannot deliver.
Good work by Kaif however, he showed the application that was needed on a pitch like that against an attack like that. Was it just me or did most of the Indian batsmen get out to the most stupid shots.
Dravid is a great hooker/puller, but it was most un-Dravidlike the way he got dismissed, he was on 13 and he had two boundaries and went for the short ball. Dravid normally would duck or evade that ball so early on in his innings.
It was good bowling by Wharf no doubt, but India's demise can be also partly attributed to some very lousy and very stupid cricket.
As for Irfan Pathan batting up the order, that idea is a complete joke. Sure he has the technique, but as Neil said we don't need a Giles type batsman up the order wasting time. He has natural talent with the bat, but natural talent doesn't translate into success which Im sure he will experience little of if he bats higher up the order.
To push down a Yuvraj or Kaif inplace of Pathan is downright ludicrous. Infact I rather see Kaif at number 4 and Dravid at number 5, so we have Dravid just incase Laxman or Kaif get dismissed. With Laxman and Dravid batting at 3 and 4 together, we only have young players to come if one of them gets out, which is why I think its really important Dravid bats at 5.
I'd also get rid of Nehra altogether, he's a liability with bat, ball and field. Balaji has been impressive over the past year and deserves the new ball with Pathan, and Agarkar should provide support. As for Kumble, he had one bad game and deserves to play. However today they can play Harbhajan and see if he does well. If not, evaluate Harbhajan's and Kumble's performances and the best spinner plays in the third game.
Good work by Kaif however, he showed the application that was needed on a pitch like that against an attack like that. Was it just me or did most of the Indian batsmen get out to the most stupid shots.
Dravid is a great hooker/puller, but it was most un-Dravidlike the way he got dismissed, he was on 13 and he had two boundaries and went for the short ball. Dravid normally would duck or evade that ball so early on in his innings.
It was good bowling by Wharf no doubt, but India's demise can be also partly attributed to some very lousy and very stupid cricket.
As for Irfan Pathan batting up the order, that idea is a complete joke. Sure he has the technique, but as Neil said we don't need a Giles type batsman up the order wasting time. He has natural talent with the bat, but natural talent doesn't translate into success which Im sure he will experience little of if he bats higher up the order.
To push down a Yuvraj or Kaif inplace of Pathan is downright ludicrous. Infact I rather see Kaif at number 4 and Dravid at number 5, so we have Dravid just incase Laxman or Kaif get dismissed. With Laxman and Dravid batting at 3 and 4 together, we only have young players to come if one of them gets out, which is why I think its really important Dravid bats at 5.
I'd also get rid of Nehra altogether, he's a liability with bat, ball and field. Balaji has been impressive over the past year and deserves the new ball with Pathan, and Agarkar should provide support. As for Kumble, he had one bad game and deserves to play. However today they can play Harbhajan and see if he does well. If not, evaluate Harbhajan's and Kumble's performances and the best spinner plays in the third game.
maybe they are making a conscious effort at increasing their runrate during middle overs......(not the best way to go about it though)masterblaster said:
i'm not sure about this, but remember reading an article that all is not well within the team.. something about youngsters and seniors not agreeing on their contracts etc.. also read an interview with sachin where he said (on this topic) "lets not talk about negatives and concentrate on positives" or something along the lines.
that is the last thing this team needs if they are going to be anyway near where they would like to be
End of over 5 (8 runs) England 26/0 (RR: 5.20)
IK Pathan 3-1-15-0 (3w) - Vauxhall End
VS Solanki 3* (9b) ME Trescothick 10* (21b 2x4)
Interesting to see a father in Indian kit and son in England kit in
the crowd
This is absolutely wonderful isn't it ? Only in Cricket can you see this and the games a winner just for this alone !!
This makes my day !!
IK Pathan 3-1-15-0 (3w) - Vauxhall End
VS Solanki 3* (9b) ME Trescothick 10* (21b 2x4)
Interesting to see a father in Indian kit and son in England kit in
the crowd
This is absolutely wonderful isn't it ? Only in Cricket can you see this and the games a winner just for this alone !!
This makes my day !!