***Official India in New Zealand***

[Arjun]

I don't buy that argument that the Indians have gone defensive. Fair, they have tried to play for time in some phases, but looking at their bowling strength, they just don't have it in (four of) them to take ten wickets in barely two sessions on a flat deck. They've all tried as much as they could, and some odd strategies were used, but there was not much they could do in so little time. Maybe they were banking on at least two sessions tomorrow, which they could use, but this Test may end up like one of those Antigua-style Test matches, where the fast bowlers are out of action towards the end of the match and we see batsmen who can barely bowl get excessive overs. If they overworked their pacers here, they would risk injury. A solution should be looked into, once the series ends.

On a lighter note, the CANBET.com logo doesn't look original.

 

[silentstriker]

My problem with the 8-1 field was that there were still four slips. So it wasn't necessarily defensive, but all it did was limit what Munaf could bowl, plus forced him to be conservative and afraid of being hit on the on side.

 

[Uppercut]

My problem with the 8-1 field was that there were still four slips. So it wasn't necessarily defensive, but all it did was limit what Munaf could bowl, plus forced him to be conservative and afraid of being hit on the on side.

The plan was seemingly to get Franklin out trying to hit the ball into the on-side when it wasn't the right stroke to play. New Zealand didn't care about how many runs they scored- quite rightly- and Munaf somewhat inevitably dragged his line well outside off.

I've no problem with a bit of creativity in the field when wickets are hard to come by- it worked before in a similar situation, remember. It's the difference between a captain like Dhoni and a captain like Ponting.

 

[Jono]

Yeah, don't mind Dhoni trying new things.

The only problem with his tactic, and I'm judging it without actually watching the play live, is that NZ aren't trying to chase down the total. When he did it vs. Katich and Hussey last year in India, Aust were in their 1st innings, and were 1-0 down in the series. They needed to attack, and eventually Katich got sucked in.

Here, Franklin to me doesn't seem to be restless, and obviously NZ aren't bothered about chasing the target. They've accepted a series loss whatever happens, and are in damage control.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, don't mind Dhoni trying new things.

The only problem with his tactic, and I'm judging it without actually watching the play live, is that NZ aren't trying to chase down the total. When he did it vs. Katich and Hussey last year in India, Aust were in their 1st innings, and were 1-0 down in the series. They needed to attack, and eventually Katich got sucked in.

Here, Franklin to me doesn't seem to be restless, and obviously NZ aren't bothered about chasing the target. They've accepted a series loss whatever happens, and are in damage control.

Indeed, it doesn't seem to have been a good plan. It could still have worked, because sometimes batsmen are more inclined to make mistakes when the runs aren't coming- Ross Taylor is someone you'd expect this to be true of for sure. But it wasn't really the right idea for the time of match, and that's easy to say in hindsight.

Still, no complaints from me. Trying things is always better than not trying things. Even if the plans don't come off, you wouldn't believe how much better someone bowls when they feel like they've got one.

 

[Jono]

Yep, love the fact that Dhoni rarely lets the game slide.

Plus I'm sure the plan didn't involve losing 21 overs to bad light. That may cost India a chance at winning the game (although they are still favourites at the bookies, despite the forecast for rain), which will be disappointing from an Indian fan perspective.

Hopefully Ishant can get in the game and snag one early tomorrow.

 

[silentstriker]

The plan was seemingly to get Franklin out trying to hit the ball into the on-side when it wasn't the right stroke to play. New Zealand didn't care about how many runs they scored- quite rightly- and Munaf somewhat inevitably dragged his line well outside off.

I've no problem with a bit of creativity in the field when wickets are hard to come by- it worked before in a similar situation, remember. It's the difference between a captain like Dhoni and a captain like Ponting.

No, I quite like him trying new things, and obviously when you try new things, you have to be prepared to accept failure. That comes with the territory. So my problem wasn't that he was unusual in his placement, but it seemed he was letting the game drift a bit, because when he did that, neither of his best bowlers were on.

Harbhajan was high on crack and doing the macarena in the field. Zaheer was dressed up as he was about to cross the Karakoram pass and Ishant was signing autographs at the boundary.

If you're going to try this, you have to try it with your best bowlers, and bowl a little closer to the off stump, especially when you realized Franklin was having none of it.

So my problem was more with the implementation, not with the idea. I defended Dhoni and his 8-1 field during the Australia series when it wasn't working initially because it was new, but more importantly, it was serving a purpose and he was doing it right. It worked out for him because the Aussies fell for it (or had to go for it), but it was a good ploy regardless. Here, it was not going anywhere as NZ weren't really interested anyway. I'm not too worried about it, considering his record as captain is superlative, and I think he'll get a bit better as he matures, and the idea itself was good. I just question its implementation.

On a secondary note, I mentioned this yesterday, but I am dissapointed a little bit in Ishant. He is 20 Tests old and we should be seeing a little bit more from him.

I think, like Zaheer Khan, a good extended stint in County Cricket would do him a world of good. It completely transformed Zaheer, and it may do the same to Ishant. Bowl some good long spells and be consistent in both friendly and flat conditions. I don't know if a county would want him, but perhaps the BCCI could work something out if no one does, with an exchange or something. He needs to start to be more consistent, he has about 20 Tests under him now.

 

[oitoitoi]

On a secondary note, I mentioned this yesterday, but I am dissapointed a little bit in Ishant. He is 20 Tests old and we should be seeing a little bit more from him.

I think, like Zaheer Khan, a good extended stint in County Cricket would do him a world of good. It completely transformed Zaheer, and it may do the same to Ishant. Bowl some good long spells and be consistent in both friendly and flat conditions. I don't know if a county would want him, but perhaps the BCCI could work something out if no one does, with an exchange or something. He needs to start to be more consistent, he has about 20 Tests under him now.

Geoff Boycott has said several times that he wants him to play for Yorkshire which I agree would do him a world of good. His stamina is good and I think he's alright on flat pitches (average of 24 in India is damn good especially considering the opposition), what worries me is that he doesn't really know how to use helpful conditions. County cricket is very forgiving for a player of his calibre and it would allow him to try new things. It would be well worth the investment of time considering his very young age, however it's unlikely the BBCI will let him go. Also I think the only time he might have is around June, July when he'll probably want a rest anyway.

Apparently currently raining in Wellington, betfair now has the draw as a fairly big favourite.

 

[Jono]

Apparently currently raining in Wellington, betfair now has the draw as a fairly big favourite.

Really? Both Bet365 and Betfair have it fairly even money.

That being said, wouldn't want to have money on India with the weather atm. I had money on India before, but have decided to hedge my bets and put some on the draw too. Not confident with the weather reports I've read online.

 

[oitoitoi]

Really? Both Bet365 and Betfair have it fairly even money.

That being said, wouldn't want to have money on India with the weather atm. I had money on India before, but have decided to hedge my bets and put some on the draw too. Not confident with the weather reports I've read online.

Yeah the odds have lengthened on the draw again, really could go either way because of the weather. Not a good match to have money on, I'm currently monitoring the odds, got money on the win but looks like I'll have to go heavily on the draw to salvage the stake, still waiting though.

 

[Smudge]

Overcast in the Hutt Valley (about 20 minutes' drive away from the Basin) right now.

 

[ret]

Gambler's Fallacy.

that's a nice explanation and in it I found what I had been saying!

It should be noted that not all predictions about what is likely to occur are fallacious. If a person has good evidence for his predictions, then they will be reasonable to accept. For example, if a person tosses a fair coin and gets nine heads in a row it would be reasonable for him to conclude that he will probably not get another nine in a row again. This reasoning would not be fallacious as long as he believed his conclusion because of an understanding of the laws of probability. In this case, if he concluded that he would not get another nine heads in a row because the odds of getting nine heads in a row are lower than getting fewer than nine heads in a row, then his reasoning would be good and his conclusion would be justified. Hence, determining whether or not the Gambler's Fallacy is being committed often requires some basic understanding of the laws of probability.

And my take on Ryder came out to be spot on

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

that's a nice explanation and in it I found what I had been saying!



And my take on Ryder came out to be spot on

I assume ret is short for ******?

 

[Uppercut]

No, I quite like him trying new things, and obviously when you try new things, you have to be prepared to accept failure. That comes with the territory. So my problem wasn't that he was unusual in his placement, but it seemed he was letting the game drift a bit, because when he did that, neither of his best bowlers were on.

Harbhajan was high on crack and doing the macarena in the field. Zaheer was dressed up as he was about to cross the Karakoram pass and Ishant was signing autographs at the boundary.

If you're going to try this, you have to try it with your best bowlers, and bowl a little closer to the off stump, especially when you realized Franklin was having none of it.

So my problem was more with the implementation, not with the idea. I defended Dhoni and his 8-1 field during the Australia series when it wasn't working initially because it was new, but more importantly, it was serving a purpose and he was doing it right. It worked out for him because the Aussies fell for it (or had to go for it), but it was a good ploy regardless. Here, it was not going anywhere as NZ weren't really interested anyway. I'm not too worried about it, considering his record as captain is superlative, and I think he'll get a bit better as he matures, and the idea itself was good. I just question its implementation.

On a secondary note, I mentioned this yesterday, but I am dissapointed a little bit in Ishant. He is 20 Tests old and we should be seeing a little bit more from him.

I think, like Zaheer Khan, a good extended stint in County Cricket would do him a world of good. It completely transformed Zaheer, and it may do the same to Ishant. Bowl some good long spells and be consistent in both friendly and flat conditions. I don't know if a county would want him, but perhaps the BCCI could work something out if no one does, with an exchange or something. He needs to start to be more consistent, he has about 20 Tests under him now.

What was interesting about the implementation against Australia was that Katich actually got out lbw and Hussey was run out. It wasn't the actual plan that came off- i.e. they didn't nick a wide one trying to up the tempo- but the fact that they were trying something played on the minds of the Australian batsmen, especially when the runs weren't coming when they'd been flowing freely the evening before. Implementing unusual plans often unsettles batsmen simply by making them think outside the box and act in a way they wouldn't normally. Truth be told, plans very rarely come off, but they often get wickets indirectly- and Dhoni always has one, and that's why i'm such a big fan of his captaincy.

On Ishant, i think it's just a case of him being overhyped. He's a good, promising bowler, but i wondered a bit when his name popped up in the "who are the world's best fast bowlers at present" thread. I don't think he was ever really in the top echelon, he often struggles to turn good bowling into wickets (maybe because he bowls a touch short but i'm not really sure). Don't get me wrong, he's a quality player and any side in the world would have him, but it shouldn't really come as a massive surprise when he has a mediocre series.

 

[silentstriker]

No, I never have, nor do I expect him to be that type of bowler. Wickets are one thing, but I would have expected him to be a little less inconsistant in his line and length by now.

 

[oitoitoi]

On Ishant, i think it's just a case of him being overhyped. He's a good, promising bowler, but i wondered a bit when his name popped up in the "who are the world's best fast bowlers at present" thread. I don't think he was ever really in the top echelon, he often struggles to turn good bowling into wickets (maybe because he bowls a touch short but i'm not really sure). Don't get me wrong, he's a quality player and any side in the world would have him, but it shouldn't really come as a massive surprise when he has a mediocre series.

I think the big thing with Ishant is that he has all the raw materials at a very, very young age and in fairness, has translated them into results against the best in the world on unresponsive surfaces, if not as consistently as one would have hoped. I think he'll improve a lot with experience. He could really do with someone like Shaun Pollock or Michael Holding in his ear. I think it's fair to rank him with the best bowlers in the world right now, however that's partially a slight on the quality of world bowling right now, Steyn being the clear exception. However 3 years down the line and I think this guy could really be tearing up the world circuit. Basically I just think he's a bit undercoached.

 

[Uppercut]

I think the big thing with Ishant is that he has all the raw materials at a very, very young age and in fairness, has translated them into results against the best in the world on unresponsive surfaces, if not as consistently as one would have hoped. I think he'll improve a lot with experience. He could really do with someone like Shaun Pollock or Michael Holding in his ear. I think it's fair to rank him with the best bowlers in the world right now, however that's partially a slight on the quality of world bowling right now, Steyn being the clear exception. However 3 years down the line and I think this guy could really be tearing up the world circuit. Basically I just think he's a bit undercoached.

He's really useful indeed. Personally I'd have him a clear class below Johnson and Steyn, probably in the same league as someone like Flintoff although not as proven. I just think he needs the ability to really tear a side apart to be considered one of the world's very best.

It's just a lot of pressure- he was 19, he'd played about 15 games and had taken a solitary five-fer (and not a very good one) and people call him the best bowler in the world? He was always going to disappoint a tad at some stage.

 

[ret]

I assume ret is short for ******?

that's exactly what a Ninja would assume .... Ninja = No Income, No Job, No Asset

 

[Uppercut]

that's exactly what a Ninja would assume .... Ninja = No Income, No Job, No Asset

Would work if ninja was spelt ninjna. Fail.

 

[ret]

Would work if ninja was spelt ninjna. Fail.

why are you so interested in failing me *wondering* .... still sour over losing avatar

are you sure its spelled that way?