***Official India in New Zealand***

[DaRick]

Sounds like an extension of Ganguly's views on left arm spinners. Have to say that Ganguly, until Chappellgate, made life hell for left arm spinners like no batsman has ever done.

Well, left-arm finger spinners, anyway.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Well, left-arm finger spinners, anyway.

You're probably thinking Brad Hogg? Well, I did qualify my post with 'until Chappellgate', and it was pretty obvious towards the end of his career that Ganguly was losing it against all varieties of spinners anyway.

 

[Uppercut]

5 runs? I lost the bet by five runs? Argh!

Ah well.

Got the avatar?

I love the fact that Yuvraj made an obvious-technical-fault induced duck in the process of India giving you that avatar.

 

[ret]

Ind is 267 runs behind with 2 days to go .... what a turn around for NZ! .... Once you get Sehwag early, the chances of a big score go down dramatically for India and NZ has done that twice in this test. No need to say that some of the senior guys will have to score big 100s. NZ needs to just hang on, apply pressure and grab the chances

If the pitch is going to be like this in the next game, then Ind should consider bringing in Mishra for Yuvraj. The return of Dhoni will help too

 

[Flem274*]

The irony is beautiful. (EDIT: SS's avatar)

Interesting thread (between the bumb shot argument).

Its fair to say India have the better team on paper, so whats contributed here? Well for one thing the paper sheet itself doesn't count for much because all these NZ batsmen are so new to the test scene, that they have a clean slate to work with. The bowlers are constantly under fire from media, but the fact is Martin is a good workhorse (I still don't think he's as good as he has been rated, but there's no denying he's reliable and on his day, brilliant), O'Brien has sneakily assumed the role of strike bowler (very high up the wicket charts last year), Patel and Vettori, whilst being limited spinners, crucially don't rely on spinning wickets to do well, and Franklin has got some accuracy and zip back.

India, for all their brilliance, still aren't the greatest travellers, and thats understandable considering subcontinent conditions are so unique, also helps to catch the ball occassionally.

We don't have this test yet by any means, the Indian batting line up is probably the most reliable in the world atm, so if anyone is going to pull off a draw here, its them (pitch isn't exactly terrifying). To win, NZ need to do the cliche's of line, length and snaring some movement. Also, if the spinners can extract some turn, that would be great.

We have two days at them, that should be enough for any top 8 side to bowl the opposition out, what we need to make sure of is not letting them score too many runs whilst doing so, otherwise the final few sessions could be very tense.

Crucially, at the end of this test India shouldn't hit panic mode with selections, if anything Yuvraj would be my only drop (Dhoni to return if possible of course). If India salvage a draw here, then I can see "bowling attack speed injection panic mode" being hit, and some poor bloke (Gillespie) drafted in because he can bowl 140+, but isn't ready atm.

Though in saying that, if Ian Butler was managed correctly (short sharp 5 over bursts where he runs in hard) I can see him making the test team and doing well.

 

[DaRick]

You're probably thinking Brad Hogg? Well, I did qualify my post with 'until Chappellgate', and it was pretty obvious towards the end of his career that Ganguly was losing it against all varieties of spinners anyway.

Yeah, you did - I've been misinterpreting things left, right and centre lately.

 

[Uppercut]

The irony is beautiful. (EDIT: SS's avatar)

Interesting thread (between the bumb shot argument).

Its fair to say India have the better team on paper, so whats contributed here? Well for one thing the paper sheet itself doesn't count for much because all these NZ batsmen are so new to the test scene, that they have a clean slate to work with. The bowlers are constantly under fire from media, but the fact is Martin is a good workhorse (I still don't think he's as good as he has been rated, but there's no denying he's reliable and on his day, brilliant), O'Brien has sneakily assumed the role of strike bowler (very high up the wicket charts last year), Patel and Vettori, whilst being limited spinners, crucially don't rely on spinning wickets to do well, and Franklin has got some accuracy and zip back.

India, for all their brilliance, still aren't the greatest travellers, and thats understandable considering subcontinent conditions are so unique, also helps to catch the ball occassionally.

We don't have this test yet by any means, the Indian batting line up is probably the most reliable in the world atm, so if anyone is going to pull off a draw here, its them (pitch isn't exactly terrifying). To win, NZ need to do the cliche's of line, length and snaring some movement. Also, if the spinners can extract some turn, that would be great.

We have two days at them, that should be enough for any top 8 side to bowl the opposition out, what we need to make sure of is not letting them score too many runs whilst doing so, otherwise the final few sessions could be very tense.

Crucially, at the end of this test India shouldn't hit panic mode with selections, if anything Yuvraj would be my only drop (Dhoni to return if possible of course). If India salvage a draw here, then I can see "bowling attack speed injection panic mode" being hit, and some poor bloke (Gillespie) drafted in because he can bowl 140+, but isn't ready atm.

Though in saying that, if Ian Butler was managed correctly (short sharp 5 over bursts where he runs in hard) I can see him making the test team and doing well.

I think Dhoni's the biggest factor here. The side looks so, sooo much more up for it when he's captaining them. Since South Africa's visit of India, his record reads:

1-0 vs. South Africa
2-0 vs. Australia
1-0 vs. England
1-0 vs. New Zealand

Whilst under the captaincy of anyone else reads:
0-1 vs. South Africa
1-2 vs. Sri Lanka
0-0 vs. Australia
Quite possibly soon to be 0-1 vs. New Zealand.

Then there's ODIs, where they've torn apart everyone comprehensively with Dhoni in charge bar Ajantha Mendis in the Asia Cup final.

But much more convincing than those stats would be just watching the team in the field with Dhoni in charge. In Sri Lanka, they frequently dropped catches and generally looked lethargic. Against Australia they were outplayed in the first test and just about escaped with a draw, then in the third they dropped Clarke 3 times en route to a century and let the game slip. And now, against New Zealand, they just look absolutely dire.

They're good players, but they don't play winning cricket without their captain.

 

[Flem274*]

So in short, they need to be given a good kick up the arse by the skip to play well?

I think thats very dissappointing actualy. Surely they're more motivated than that?

 

[silentstriker]

Sehwag is an idiot. That's why I don't like him. But you can't critisize him for this. If you pick him, that's who you're picking. You can't take a run a ball triple century and not take this with it. That's how he plays, you either take him for that, or you don't.

Sachin is a superior player with much more range, and you can critisize him for playing like that. He can play both ways. Sehwag can't. You take the ducks with the massive centuries. Or you don't take him at all.

 

[Uppercut]

I don't think Dhoni gives them a good-kick-up-the-arse. That's from the old English footy manager school of thought, and i can exclusively reveal that it's bollocks.

Everyone needs motivation and encouragement sometimes, and Dhoni's man-managing gets the best out of his players. I don't know exactly what he does, but it works.

He's a million times better than Kumble and Sehwag tactically, too.

 

[silentstriker]

According to what I've heard from the players, he is very laid back as a captain. Zaheer says Dhoni asks him what fields he wants and what his plan is, and lets him do it himself. Dhoni only changes it if that plan isn't working. Seems reasonable.

I don't know much about his motivational skills. Although, it is a bit dissapointing that you need motivation to dive and have some enthusiasm at this level.

 

[Uppercut]

According to what I've heard from the players, he is very laid back as a captain. Zaheer says Dhoni asks him what fields he wants and what his plan is, and lets him do it himself. Dhoni only changes it if that plan isn't working. Seems reasonable.

I don't know much about his motivational skills. Although, it is a bit dissapointing that you need motivation to dive and have some enthusiasm at this level.

It is somewhat disappointing, but that's how it is. Realistically, the thrill of playing for your country can't last for 35 hours of a test match during your 79th appearance in the blazing heat while carrying a minor injury. Everyone's head drops sometimes, and self-motivation is often harder than we like to think.

So while it'd be nice to believe that because they're playing for their country they'll automatically be capable of giving 100% effort 100% of the time, someone with good man-management skills can make a big difference. Although there are, like refusing to dive, extremes of laziness that i wouldn't accept.

 

[luckyeddie]

So you agree the shot was dumb, yet you take offense to a commentator saying it was dumb?

Unless of course you think playing an inappropriate, unthoughtful shot in that situation is somehow smart?

I enjoy Smith and Crowe's commentary tbh, they call a spade a spade. I'm pretty sure Sehwag would have been saying exactly the same thing as Smith at that point in time also.

By the way, he didn't call Sehwag dumb, he called the shot he decided to play dumb. How would you describe it in one word?

Inappropriate, if I think about it. Dumb if I don't. No, belay that. Dumb if I do too.

D-U-M-B.
Derisible, Unintelligent, Mad, Bonkers.
Dumb.

I love watching Sehwag, but you get just what it says on the tin. He won't change, because it would dilute him. However, there are times that it would be better for the team if he did just rein it in a bt.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, that shot was inappropriate. Yes, he should have thought about the match situation. Yes, he should have showed some discretion. Yes, there was a lot more match play left.

That's pretty much the criteria for dumb.

 

[Xuhaib]

Holy crap. I'm actually sort-of-right for once. I guess if you throw enough darts.....

Love the avatar buddy

 

[Pratters]

How do our Indian fans rate our two best batsman here?

Taylor and Ryder are all class.

 

[honestbharani]

Inappropriate, if I think about it. Dumb if I don't. No, belay that. Dumb if I do too.

D-U-M-B.
Derisible, Unintelligent, Mad, Bonkers.
Dumb.

I love watching Sehwag, but you get just what it says on the tin. He won't change, because it would dilute him. However, there are times that it would be better for the team if he did just rein it in a bt.

He WAS trying to rein it in, though... That is the whole point. He was not himself. He was playing defensively all innings and when the spinner came on, he was shown up on his muddled thinking. He plays best when he watches the ball and plays the attacking shot most appropriate to the ball. He doesn't premeditate his hits as much as a Yuvraj or Dhoni does. He is a lot more natural than them and that shows up why he has had so much more success in tests than those two... Today he was just not thinking properly and it showed up...


On another note, when a batsman has more chances of success playing an attacking shot than a defensive one, should we really still call it silly when he tries that? For instance, a Yuvraj will never last long on a seaming track but if he does start playing his shots, he has much more chance of timing them than his defences (IMO at least). In that case, he is still playing sensible cricket right? And this applies to a lot of batsmen today, given all the flat tracks and T20s they grow up with... They have much more chances of succeeding with attacking strokes than their defensive strokes because it is just so so flawed how they do it... Would love opinions on that.

 

[Xuhaib]

Taylor and Ryder are all class.

awta.

 

[honestbharani]

Backing India to bat out the draw even now.

Seriously.

you need to stop jinxing us... seriously.




Was juz so frustrating today.. Sachin was in, Rahul was in and Lax was in and they all got out in stupid ways.... Sachin defended with his feet going nowhere near the pitch of the ball, Rahul cutting with his balance falling over the other side instead of going towards the ball and Laxman playing extremely loose hang the bat outside drive...


I thought we were in business when DK and Laxman looked decent for about half an hour out there after tea and then one stupid shot from Karthik and it was all over soon.


Karthik needs to stop these rushes of blood... He is a decent enough batsman when he puts his head down and concentrates on getting a start before playing his shots. His problem is sometimes he tries to be a Dhoni when Dhoni himself has toned it down so much these days... He should just concentrate on getting in, trying to work 1s and 2s first and getting himself to 30 or so before starting to expand his strokeplay. He has the talent, but it is about the application at this level.

 

[Dick Rockett]

This whole Sehwag = dumb thing is extraordinary isn't it? adharcric used the word "********", yet no-one knocked him over and stomped on his head for that adjective did they?

NZers had to put up with what amounted to some pretty unfair comments about their players before this series even started, yet Sehwag gets rightly called out for playing a dumb shot and the fanboys go ballistic. This being despite the fact that the man has deservedly been covered in praise throughout the tour for batting like a complete legend. Suck it up for once, ****s.

Regarding the Sky commentary team: they are crap though aren't they? I don't know who at Sky seems to think ex-player = good commentator but whoever it is (probably Crowe) is obviously a bit soft upstairs. Bring back the likes of Jeremy Coney, Glenn Turner, John Morrison, Bob Cunis (I know he's dead, but still better than Doull) and so on. They were great.

Oh yeah, the test. India will make us bat again, but I reckon NZ will win it. Even we should be able to turn this sort of position into victory. Right???