***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[Arjun]

Both sharmas are problem areas tbh. Ishant just needs to gagfd, Rohit just too slow... If he consumes this many balls he's atleast got to go on and get a decent score. Hate to criticise him when he actually had a great 2013, but it was a problem in the SA ODIs as well

Rohit's stats, broken up, reveal he's a much superior player at five, good average, good conversion rate, better strike rate, but won't get too many chances to score hundreds. Something to make use of, now that he's had enough batting practice at the top.

They need to strengthen the top five, so that their bottom five see no more than five overs a game.

 

[Arjun]

We've done it to Malinga tbf.

I think people are overplaying this. India's problem is the bowling, not the batting. They fell just short of chasing an extraordinarily large total.

Extraordinarily large total conceded by a dreadful bowling attack that's played one game too many. Look up all the figures of the Indian bowlers in the last 18 games, and then beginning with the Australia series, and you'll see some rather disturbing results for the bowlers with virtually permanent places.

 

[Blocky]

The real flaw here was not batting first, considering New Zealand haven't shown any ability in recent times to chase down bigger scores. The Windies and Bangladesh have proven that just recently.

 

[Jono]

Nah... Shami and Bhuvi did OK. Sharma obviously needs to gagf but that won't happen so nothing we can do. Problem in these two matches and the two in SA has been the openers . If they get us off to decent starts, we win pretty much every game, especially chases. It's most definitely been our strength for years. It's just gone missing in the last few games

Yes chasing has been our strength. So why are people bagging our strength? Makes no sense. They performed brilliantly today.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Extraordinarily large total conceded by a dreadful bowling attack that's played one game too many. Look up all the figures of the Indian bowlers in the last 18 games, and then beginning with the Australia series, and you'll see some rather disturbing results for the bowlers with virtually permanent places.

It hasn't been all dreadful though. Shami and Kumar have bowled really well.

1st ODI
Shami 4/55 - 1st spell 4-0-16-2, 2nd spell (PP) 2-0-11-1, 3rd (death) 1-0-19-0, 4th spell (death) 2-0-9-1
He bowled well up front and in the batting powerplay, taking wickets in both spells. Got tonked by Anderson and Ronchi, but then came back to bowl two amazing death overs. Should have been bowled out.

Kumar 1/38 - 1st spell 7-0-24-0, 2nd spell 1-0-6-0, 3rd spell (death) 2-0-8-1
Was expensive in his first over but came back to bowl 6 overs for 17. Bowled exceptionally well in tandem with Shami at the death.

2nd ODI
Shami 3/55 - 1st spell 4-0-28-1, 2nd spell (PP) 1-0-13-0, 3rd spell (death) 2-0-14-2
A little expensive up front, got dealt to by Ryder but then got him out. Rough PP spell, but NZ had just came out after the delay and were going for it. Had another great death over taking two wickets for only 3 runs bringing NZs momentum to a halt. Even a 11 off the last was a decent result.

Kumar 1/43 - 1st spell 4-1-19-0, 2nd spell 1-0-1-0, 3rd spell (PP) 1-0-15-0, 4th spell (death) 1-0-8-1
Another good spell up front, got tonked in the one over he bowled in NZ power play, then came back and bowled a good over at the death.

Sharma has been crap and needs to go. Ashwin and Jadeja haven't really trouble NZ too much as they have generally bowled in the middle period where NZ have worked them around taking little risks, due to some good starts (and pressure being let off by Sharma)
But Shami and Kumar have been superb.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yes chasing has been our strength. So why are people bagging our strength? Makes no sense. They performed brilliantly today.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm just saying the bowling won't get any better no matter what we do. This is about as good as it'll get, I'm resigned to that fact, as long as Ishant is in the team.
Now, with the available players, is it possible to bat better or do some shuffling to get better results ? Yes... The starts haven't been good enough, leaving godlike Kohli and Dhoni with too much to do. Just a few slightly quicker runs at the top and we would've won both games. Rahane opening with Dhawan and Rohit coming down the order might not be a bad idea, though I'm sure Rohit would absolutely hate that.

 

[Jono]

We literally don't play Sharma and its immediately better tbf.

 

[Bahnz]

Good win even if it looks like Anderson bowled plenty of pies. Any word on Ryder's injury? It would be justing ****ing typical if we lost 2 of our biggest crowd pullers in the first 2 games.

 

[smash84]

Can anybody explain to me what exactly is Dhoni's obsession with Ishant?

I haven't met one single person in my life who actually rates Ishant and yet he is ALWAYS present in the Indian team.

 

[Prensel]

His strike rate isn't that bad

 

[smash84]

I think his SR his 8 and average probably 42

 

[Daemon]

We've done it to Malinga tbf.

I think people are overplaying this. India's problem is the bowling, not the batting. They fell just short of chasing an extraordinarily large total.

Yeah agreed. That said it's not wrong to want to strengthen the batting lineup when we know it can be better. It's an undeniable fact that we're relying massively on Kohli and Dhoni atm.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think his SR his 8 and average probably 42

You'd be surprised at how un-sharmaesquely bad his figures are in ODI cricket. Average is around 31.
This just goes to show how averages can be very misleading in ODI cricket. Ishant Sharma's job as a bowler is to ideally take a few wickets with the new ball and concede not too many in the death overs. What Ishant does is not take any wickets when it's required (early on) but then comes back and takes a couple of ultra cheap wickets in the death overs when the opponents are slogging away, while giving away a load of runs.

A typical Sharma ODI performance would be :
First spell: 6-0-38-0
Second spell: 4-0-40-3

He thus ends up with 10-0-78-3. Average is pretty decent but it's a disastrously bad performance which hasn't helped the team one bit. Read an article on Cricinfo recently which backed this with actual stats too.

 

[hendrix]

We've done it to Malinga tbf.

I think people are overplaying this. India's problem is the bowling, not the batting. They fell just short of chasing an extraordinarily large total.

Well I disagree. Australia's bowling and fielding in ODIs isn't that crappy either. It's just a reliance on the two best ODI players in the world that's hurting us. The others didn't contribute as much as they shouldve and unfortunately Kohli got out to pies in both matches. Plenty we can do better.

Imo if the openers fire, we become ridiculously hard to beat, and especially I'm chases it sets up the game for us with Kohli and Dhoni to then finish it off. With these slow starts, we're expecting Kohli and Dhoni to produce miracles every game which just won't happen.

Basically, I agree with both of you. Kohli and Dhoni are going to chase anything...just not anything. They're Gods, but they' not immortal, if that makes sense. With such minuscule contributions from the top order, and with such a poor bowling effort, they're going to fail at some point.

 

[hendrix]

Now, with the available players, is it possible to bat better or do some shuffling to get better results ? Yes... The starts haven't been good enough, leaving godlike Kohli and Dhoni with too much to do. .

This is insanely positive. As godlike as Dhoni and Kohli are, you're asking way too much of them. You're talking a 297 chase in 42 overs ffs. That's extremely difficult. That's nearly impossible.

Dhawan and Sharma need to be Tendulkar and Ganguly for that to come off, plus Kohli and Dhoni in the middle order.

You're asking for an ATG batting order.

 

[Daemon]

This is insanely positive. As godlike as Dhoni and Kohli are, you're asking way too much of them. You're talking a 297 chase in 42 overs ffs. That's extremely difficult. That's nearly impossible.

Dhawan and Sharma need to be Tendulkar and Ganguly for that to come off, plus Kohli and Dhoni in the middle order.

You're asking for an ATG batting order.

Nah, this sort of mentality is what limits people.

Why is 297 off 42 overs impossible? You're forgetting that for India to chase that total, NZ had to make it first.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

That would have to be one of the most thrilling games ive ever been too and us finally winning something at seddon park is a huge bonus as well.

I reckon there were 7-8 thousand people there and over half would have been indians. I got caught in a mob of them for most of the second half and got a taste of what jonos life is like when I joined in the Kohli chant (while wearing my black caps shirt), which involved screaming everytime he scored a run. Ftr I can't remember crowds getting that pumped up, even for tendulkaur.

I also was about 10 metres behind the 100k catch, which I have to say the cameramen ****ed up, it was easily 10 times better there, and seemed to happen in slow mo as well (although thats probably due to how high Anderson was hitting them).


Other highlights were the security guards shirts with the classic no more beersies for you on the front, and the alternative comm guys wearing jandals with their awful suites.

 

[hendrix]

Nah, this sort of mentality is what limits people.

Why is 297 off 42 overs impossible? You're forgetting that for India to chase that total, NZ had to make it first.

a) it's harder to chase a big score than it is to put it up

b) NZ's whole game plan revolves around their hitters hitting out, and their bowlers being the very good bowlers they are.

Obviously, India have good chasing batsmen. But the relative strengths of the team meant that as soon as this score was posted, NZ should have been favourites.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Nah, this sort of mentality is what limits people.

Why is 297 off 42 overs impossible? You're forgetting that for India to chase that total, NZ had to make it first.

Nah we only made 271, but were gifted a few by D/L for having so many wickets in hand

 

[Daemon]

Nah we only made 271, but were gifted a few by D/L for having so many wickets in hand

You were gifted runs because for the first 33.2 overs of the game, the batsmen batted according to a 50 over situation. When the overs were reduced, they were compensated.