****OFFICIAL**** Imran Khan vs Botham Debate Thread

[silentstriker]

Imran Khan and Ian Botham were both great players. However, someone in the Lara vs Tendulkar thread said that Botham and Imran were relatively equal.

That to me doesn't sound right, as I think Imran Khan was clearly better, for longer. What do you all think?


Please be civil. They were both fantastic players.

/Dons his flame-retardent suit.

 

[aussie]

Imran was better overall i guess..

 

[superkingdave]

Imran Khan, hate botham on commentary and i only caught the fat phase of his career

 

[steds]

Did Imran's son play for Leeds and Wigan? No. He has my vote.












































Tbf, I was a Liam Botham fan. Liked the cut of the boy's jib. Still commited the most heathen crime imaginable when he turned out for the Cherry and Whites, though.

 

[Goughy]

Well the question was never qualified, it is up to interpretation.

If the question was Who was the best batsman at the height of their batting career then its Imran

If the question was Who was the best bowler at the height of their bowling career then the answer is Imran

If the question was Who was the best allrounder (batting and bowling combined) at the height of their allround career then the answer in Botham.

Imrans batting and bowling peaks never really got close to coinciding for any length of time.

For a 5-6 year period Botham was the most destructive allrounder ever to have walked on the planet.

Just take a look at the 100s and 10 wkts in a match and it is obvious that Botham dominated games like no one before or since.

Imran went through phases of being predominently a batsman and other times when he was mainly a bowler. It is only looking at the stats does he look like a 'true' allrounder when all the phases of his career are added together.

One of his phases was the greatest fast bowler on the planet, but Im taking the question to mean as an allrounder so therefore it must be Botham.

 

[Hurst_Hattrick]

For sheer entertainment and delightful performances, I would have picked Boof.
However, fact remains that he faded away in his 'fat phase', as an earlier member put it so aptly. The Pathan on the other hand went from strength to strength towards the end of his career. He batted well enough to hold his spot as a pure batsman, and showed on occasions that he still was a great (in every sense of the word) bowler even with his battered shin. Imagine losing 2 years worth of bowling to a series of inept medical diagnoses and treatment!

 

[steds]

You're only saying that because Liam played for the Rhinos, goughy

 

[Goughy]

You're only saying that because Liam played for the Rhinos, goughy

Well Im not the biggest fan of either of the Bothams (Rhinos or not ) but I feel people now look at ITBs over all career stats and will never appreciate how great he was before the first serious injury.

 

[silentstriker]

Well the question was never qualified, it is up to interpretation.

If the question was Who was the best batsman at the height of their batting career then its Imran

If the question was Who was the best bowler at the height of their bowling career then the answer is Imran

If the question was Who was the best allrounder (batting and bowling combined) at the height of their allround career then the answer in Botham.

Imrans batting and bowling peaks never really got close to coinciding for any length of time.

For a 5-6 year period Botham was the most destructive allrounder ever to have walked on the planet.

Just take a look at the 100s and 10 wkts in a match and it is obvious that Botham dominated games like no one before or since.

Imran went through phases of being predominently a batsman and other times when he was mainly a bowler. It is only looking at the stats does he look like a 'true' allrounder when all the phases of his career are added together.

One of his phases was the greatest fast bowler on the planet, but Im taking the question to mean as an allrounder so therefore it must be Botham.

It's a bit broader - at least the way I intended it. Overall, who was the better cricket player. Obviously, thats a bit of a hairy question...but still. They both just happened to be allrounders, the question would be the same if I compared Lilee with Marshall. Who's the overall player, taking into account all phases of the cricket game (batting, bowling, fielding, wicketkeeping if applicable, captaincy, etc).

 

[Anil]

imran was the better bowler, imran was technically the better batsman of the two, botham the more explosive, botham was a better fielder and catcher, although the records tend to favour botham, i would say imran was the greater cricketer....

 

[Goughy]

Below are the stats for what I beleive are the best 20 match periods for each player in their career. I do not think there is an easy answer to the question (even if I do have my own opinion).

Imran
Mat 20
Runs 810
HS 117
Bat Av 45.00
100s 1
50s 5
Wick 106
BB 8/60
Bowl Av 15.66
5 Wkts 7
Caught 9

Botham
Mat 20
Runs 1099
HS 137
BatAv 40.70
100s 5
50s 2
Wickets 112
BB 8/34
Bowl Av 18.41
5 Wkts 10
Caught 30

Summary
Botham

• More Runs
• Better Highest Score
• More 100s
• More Wickets
• Better Best Bowling
• More 5 Wickets in an Innings
• More Catches

Imran

• Better Batting Average
• Lower Bowling Average

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Botham was a better batsman, in my opinion. Imran was a useful batsman who contributed well and worked hard, but he was never a matchwinner with the bat, and never made many scores of really daunting size at test level. Botham has more runs, more centuries, and far more matchwinning performances with the bat at test level.

Imran was a better bowler, and by some distance when you consider his comparitive longevity. Botham was an awesome bowler early in his career but dropped off fairly badly, while Imran was consistent throughout and is one of the great fast bowlers in his own right, which you'd have to say Botham isn't.

Botham was obviously a far better fielder, and there's no real contest there.

As all-rounders, I'd say Botham was marginally better at his peak, simply because for a brief period he was almost unparalleled, but Imran obviously maintained his brilliance for far longer and it shows in his statistical record.

Overall I'd probably have Imran in my team first. He contributed well over the length of his career, was a good captain and a dedicated player, none of which you could say about Botham. However, Botham was the truer all-rounder at his peak, in the sense that he could turn a game with both bat and ball, or both, and did so on a fairly regular basis for a few years early in his career, and if it came down to that 79-82 sort of period of Botham's career I'd probably have him over just about anyone.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

The biggest difference between the two is that Imran was firing on at least one of his cylinders (batting or bowling) throughout his career, and Botham was either dominating in all facets or backpedalling alarmingly.

Also, what Botham contributed through his fielding, Imran did likewise through his captaincy.

 

[bagapath]

The biggest difference between the two is that Imran was firing on at least one of his cylinders (batting or bowling) throughout his career, and Botham was either dominating in all facets or backpedalling alarmingly.

Also, what Botham contributed through his fielding, Imran did likewise through his captaincy.

hey

just re-posting my last msg from lara - sachin thread. didnt realize this thread had been on for some time. i was the one who suggested they are equals.

if their final figures show imran in better light check out their stats after 50 tests. botham is ahead.

After 50 test matches

Batting

Botham 50 75 3 2625 149* 36.45 10 10
Imran 50 75 12 2008 123 31.87 2 7

Bowling

Botham 50 11724 5244 229 8/34 22.89 19 4
Imran 50 12551 5316 232 8/58 22.91 16 4

And after 88 tests

Batting

Botham 88 140 4 4809 208 35.36 14 21
Imran 88 125 25 3807 136 38.07 6 18

Bowling

Botham 88 19838 9900 366 8/34 27.04 27 4
Imran 88 19458 8258 362 8/58 22.81 23 6

 

[Hurst_Hattrick]

Why stop at 50 tests, my friend ?

 

[bagapath]

if you look at their last 50 tests imran would be ahead. in the first 50 botham is ahead.
point is, they both rocked at different phases.cant really say one is a clear winner over the other.

my personal choice would be imran coz he was a scarier fast bowler. but there is no way he can be a winner over botham on all counts coz botham was a better match winning batsman.

also how can you brush aside the only cricketer with 10+ centuries(14) and 10+ 5 wicket hauls(27) in the history of the game? unless flintoff improves his bowling by leaps and bounds (he has one fivefer!) no one in sight is going anyway near beefy!

 

[C_C]

I'd say Imran and its not that hard of a choice ( whom i rate a shade ahead of Keith Miller as the #2 greatest allrounder in cricket after Sobers).
He was a better batsman at his peak - the difference between them, quite simply was that between poorer imitation of Lara vs a poorer imitation of Dravid both comming down the order.Imran was a more solid bat than Botham and he approached his role as the one who grits it out with the tail and milk out as much runs as possible while Botham batted up the order most of the time trying to pull a Kapil Dev- belt the leather off the ball and be a thoroughly hit-or-miss batsman.
Imran overall had a better defensive technique - considerably better while Botham had a slightly better array of strokes. I'd go for Imran because while i appreciate a lower-order milker, i dont think very highly of a middle order hit-or-miss guy in tests.

As a fielder- Botham edges it. He was a good slipper, Imran was a decent outfielder.

As a bowler- its clearly Imran. His peak was much better than Botham's, his lows better than botham's and overall career much better than Botham.

Captaincy- no brainer.

PS: My rating of allrounders from the 80s by their respective skills:


Overall :

1. Imran
2. Kapil
3. Hadlee
4. Botham

Batting:

1. Imran
2 Kapil
3. Botham
4. Hadlee

Bowling:

1. Hadlee
2. Imran
3. Kapil
4. Botham

 

[Hurst_Hattrick]

I'd say Imran and its not that hard of a choice ( whom i rate a shade ahead of Keith Miller as the #2 greatest allrounder in cricket after Sobers).
He was a better batsman at his peak - the difference between them, quite simply was that between poorer imitation of Lara vs a poorer imitation of Dravid both comming down the order.Imran was a more solid bat than Botham and he approached his role as the one who grits it out with the tail and milk out as much runs as possible while Botham batted up the order most of the time trying to pull a Kapil Dev- belt the leather off the ball and be a thoroughly hit-or-miss batsman.
Imran overall had a better defensive technique - considerably better while Botham had a slightly better array of strokes. I'd go for Imran because while i appreciate a lower-order milker, i dont think very highly of a middle order hit-or-miss guy in tests.

As a fielder- Botham edges it. He was a good slipper, Imran was a decent outfielder.

As a bowler- its clearly Imran. His peak was much better than Botham's, his lows better than botham's and overall career much better than Botham.

Captaincy- no brainer.

PS: My rating of allrounders from the 80s by their respective skills:


Overall :

1. Imran
2. Kapil
3. Hadlee
4. Botham

Batting:

1. Imran
2 Kapil
3. Botham
4. Hadlee

Bowling:

1. Hadlee
2. Imran
3. Kapil
4. Botham

While I agree in general, the only change I would make is place Botham higher than Kapil in the batting list. Botham scored more hundreds in fewer tests. Kapil was definitely a better batting talent than the remaining three, no disputing that, but it was squandered to an extent. Kapil could easily have averaged 40 with the bat were he not required to bowl with the workload of a mule towards the latter part of his career (compared to Imran and Botham who had it easy there).

 

[SJS]

Imran was a far better bowler than Botham and Botham was the better batsman of the two.

However, if I had to rate them as all rounders, I would rate Botham higher (stats be damned) not least because he was also one of the all time great fielders.

Its a futile debate I know and this is just a personal opinion. I think it was my great fortune to have seen both of them right through their entire careers.

PS : Botham was the more naturally gifted and Imran had greater commitment and resolve. Again difficult to chose between two dissimilar traits.

 

[Goughy]

I'd say Imran and its not that hard of a choice ( whom i rate a shade ahead of Keith Miller as the #2 greatest allrounder in cricket after Sobers).
He was a better batsman at his peak - the difference between them, quite simply was that between poorer imitation of Lara vs a poorer imitation of Dravid both comming down the order.Imran was a more solid bat than Botham and he approached his role as the one who grits it out with the tail and milk out as much runs as possible while Botham batted up the order most of the time trying to pull a Kapil Dev- belt the leather off the ball and be a thoroughly hit-or-miss batsman.
Imran overall had a better defensive technique - considerably better while Botham had a slightly better array of strokes. I'd go for Imran because while i appreciate a lower-order milker, i dont think very highly of a middle order hit-or-miss guy in tests.

As a fielder- Botham edges it. He was a good slipper, Imran was a decent outfielder.

As a bowler- its clearly Imran. His peak was much better than Botham's, his lows better than botham's and overall career much better than Botham.

Captaincy- no brainer.

PS: My rating of allrounders from the 80s by their respective skills:


Overall :

1. Imran
2. Kapil
3. Hadlee
4. Botham

Batting:

1. Imran
2 Kapil
3. Botham
4. Hadlee

Bowling:

1. Hadlee
2. Imran
3. Kapil
4. Botham

C_C you blow my mind. Sometime I completely agree with you and other you could not be more wrong. This post is the later.

How can you say Imran was a better batsman than Botham? Imran had 1 century in his first 45 Tests, Botham had 3 in his first 7 Tests.

Botham had 14 centuries in his Test career, Imran had 6.

And to put Kapil above Botham is not just wrong so wrong my head is about to explode.

And Hadlee should not be above Botham as an allrounder as his bowling dominated his batting. He was a far better bowler than Botham but not close as an allrounder.

SilentStiker had it right. It comes down to Botham and Imran with the other 2 a way behind as allrounders.