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*Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

morgieb

morgieb

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NUFAN said:
Starc's batting is without doubt a factor in his selection and he is basically playing as our bowling all rounder. There isn't a single Australian quick this century (dramatic huh) who has played 10+ Tests with a bowling record as poor as Mitchell Starc.

Code: 
McGrath 297 @ 20.53
Harris 58 @ 22.56
Clark 94 @ 23.86
Bollinger 50 @ 25.92
Pattinson 47 @ 26.42
Gillespie 209 @ 27.09
Bichel 56 @ 28.08
Siddle 166 @ 28.15
Hilfenhaus 99 @ 28.50
Johnson 205 @ 30.93
Lee 303 @ 31.27
Kasprowicz 68 @ 31.69
[I]Starc 38 @ 32.57[/I]
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There have been plenty of worse bowlers in recent years than Starc. That says a lot more about our pace bowling stocks than Starc himself IMO.
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
morgieb said:
There have been plenty of worse bowlers in recent years than Starc. That says a lot more about our pace bowling stocks than Starc himself IMO.
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There has been no worse bowlers in recent years who have been given the same number of opportunities. I'm just discussing this for fun really as I would include him tonight because I thought he was reasonable last Test and his batting was good. However, at the start of the tour Starc was my fifth ranked bowler (on bowling alone) and he hasn't done anything bowling wise for me to place him above that.
 
Ruckus

Ruckus

International Captain
NUFAN said:
There has been no worse bowlers in recent years who have been given the same number of opportunities. I'm just discussing this for fun really as I would include him tonight because I thought he was reasonable last Test and his batting was good. However, at the start of the tour Starc was my fifth ranked bowler (on bowling alone) and he hasn't done anything bowling wise for me to place him above that.
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Later-half-of-his-career MJ has been worse imo
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Ruckus

Ruckus

International Captain
Spikey said:
they are bowlers who have had worse 11 test periods though
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that's just blatant cherry picking though. You could probably find a 11 test period in McGrath's career where he did relatively ****e. Whilst it's not really fair to compare Starc statistically with others atm (because of the small number of matches he has played), you can only go by what he has done so far - and it isn't that impressive, neither statistically nor via observation.
 
Top_Cat

Top_Cat

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Ruckus said:
Bird has had every opportunity to be picked that Starc had. Starc had a pretty woeful tour of India and shouldn't have been seen as an incumbent. The problem is the selectors have shown patent bias for Starc, placing too much importance on a variety kind of argument that has been mentioned here. Also gotta think Bird has suffered from the 'only bowls line/length and doesn't bowel super-fast' selector mentality. I mean overall Starc has been ok, nothing more nothing less, but to say he has 'earned it' is pushing it for mine. Not sure if you are referring to Bird (in the highlighted part), but I don't see how that is true in any sense if you are. Bird is a wicket taker, especially if the pitch is offering something, he isn't a defensive bowler. All reports said he outbowled and beat the bat far more than Starc in the tour match before Starc was recalled so make of that what you will...
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I gather Bird is being treated like Kasprowicz and Bichel in the 90's; bowler-friendly conditions for half his Shield games so there's an asterisk next to wickets he's taken.

Seen enough of both of them and I do get the feeling Starc's got the infamous CW.net 'higher ceiling', hence why he's being given more opportunities. That and being a leftie who swings the ball back in is a novelty which will win you the occasional Test in and of itself so he'll keep getting a go even while he's still putting the whole being a left-arm quick thing together. Like it not, Bird's up against it to get regular Tests at the moment.

So much of this whole selection thing is about timing; had Starc not had that purple patch with the while ball, he might not even had made the India tour. Bird a bit unlucky in that way and was injured at a fairly awful time too. But, by the same token, he's not a proven great who should just slot back in either, needs to bide his time like everyone else.
 
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KungFu_Kallis

KungFu_Kallis

International 12th Man
Top_Cat said:
I gather Bird is being treated like Kasprowicz and Bichel in the 90's; bowler-friendly conditions for half his Shield games so there's an asterisk next to wickets he's taken.

Seen enough of both of them and I do get the feeling Starc's got the infamous CW.net 'higher ceiling', hence why he's being given more opportunities. That and being a leftie who swings the ball back in is a novelty which will win you the occasional Test in and of itself so he'll keep getting a go even while he's still putting the whole being a left-arm quick thing together. Like it not, Bird's up against it to get regular Tests at the moment.

So much of this whole selection thing is about timing; had Starc not had that purple patch with the while ball, he might not even had made the India tour. Bird a bit unlucky in that way and was injured at a fairly awful time too. But, by the same token, he's not a proven great who should just slot back in either, needs to bide his time like everyone else.
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Quality post, and not too much to argue here with, frustrating though the NSP learning disability is. I.e. Johnson all over again
 
F

Flametree

International 12th Man
KungFu_Kallis said:
Eng vs Aus with common-sense-selection-panel: probably 2-2
Eng vs Aus with this selection panel: probably 4-0
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Sorry, but no.... No tinkering with the selection panel is going to change the fact that Austalia were 120-9 and 130 all out in the first innings of the first two tests on perfectly decent batting wickets. Warner's unavailability can hardly be put down to the selection panel, and maybe Katich aside, the selectors picked the best 8 batsmen available to them for the initial squad.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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I don't think he meant that the results of the first two tests would change though, just that Australia's batting has magically got better and they'll win the next two tests (which I also disagree with anyways)
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Australia's batting has not "magically gotten better". Posting massive scores on the back of Clarke is something we've done a number of times over the last 18 months, it's just that posting a decent score without Clarke firing is something we basically never do (and sometimes even with Clarke firing). There's hope in Rogers and Smith but not a great deal has changed over the last week from where it was at the start of the series.
 
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