*Official* Fifth Test (The Oval, London) 27-31 July

[chris.hinton]

And Ireland was a 4 day game. Shouldn't have got test status

 

[Starfighter]

As for replacing Stokes, the guy who should be trying to build a case isn't even playing in his county's recent FC games, despite playing in the T20 finals day in between them, so I think we can see where his priorities lie.

Who are you referring to?

It's going to be a bit weird seeing a series without Anderson and maybe Broad, but it will also be a bit fresh - I've been watching them for thirteen years. Going on the eye test I think Atkinson has a higher ceiling than Tongue (though I've said I don't really rate the latter, which may come back to bite me). He's perhaps a tad slower (but he could get his front knee a bit straighter) but has a high action and unlike many bowlers these days bowls very close to the stumps, something I'm a big fan of. Hadn't even heard of him until this year but saw him in highlights and he really stood out.

When it comes to 2027 no I don't see many of this Australian team playing. Marnus, Head, Green and Murphy, maybe Marsh if he gets a second wind and Cummins if he lasts. I think England's batting future looks distantly surer moving forward that Australia's. Discounting Pucovski, I can't see a single batsman who will be able to replace Smith, Warner (except for his awful period recently) and Khawaja. The stocks in the Sheffield Shield are pretty dire.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If you look at the stats pre-Bazball then you'd know it most definitely does. With a bit of common sense, England would be unbeaten this year, but then I guess a certain amount of common sense has to be thrown out to Bazball.

I actually agree. I wrote my post (re the red ball wins) to see if anyone would mention the NZ pink ball test to which I could respond. It was too easy (cue wicked laugh).

 

[Spark]

Who are you referring to?xa

It's going to be a bit weird seeing a series without Anderson and maybe Broad, but it will also be a bit fresh - I've been watching them for thirteen years. Going on the eye test I think Atkinson has a higher ceiling than Tongue (though I've said I don't really rate the latter, which may come back to bite me). He's perhaps a tad slower (but he could get his front knee a bit straighter) but has a high action and unlike many bowlers these days bowls very close to the stumps, something I'm a big fan of. Hadn't even heard of him until this year but saw him in highlights and he really stood out.

When it comes to 2027 no I don't see many of this Australian team playing. Marnus, Head, Green and Murphy, maybe Marsh if he gets a second wind and Cummins if he lasts. I think England's batting future looks distantly surer moving forward that Australia's. Discounting Pucovski, I can't see a single batsman who will be able to replace Smith, Warner (except for his awful period recently) and Khawaja. The stocks in the Sheffield Shield are pretty dire.

I kind of agree but at the same time we've been having that discussion about where the future batting prospects since 2011. Seems to work out regardless.

 

[kevinw]

Hadn’t given it much thought but this may well be the last Ashes test for many English players

Can’t imagine that Anderson, Broad & Mo will be in Australia

Wood might be better served chasing coin

Bairstow meh

Stokes is crocked so probably facing time out of the game

Big holes to fill

Can't see Woakes touring Australia given he's 34 and has a poor overseas record.

Still, most of the top order should be there and I think YJB will be more than adequately replaced whether that's Foakes or Smith. I think England do have good batting options even if something goes amiss in the next eighteen months. Bowling may be an issue but Robinson should be there, Leach probably, Sam Cook should be in contention, Tongue, Potts, Mahmood, etc. Could do with a bit of pace but I don't the well is totally dry.

 

[wpdavid]

Who are you referring to?

The guy who should be aiming to bat at 6 and operate as a 5th bowler in the post-Stokes test side is SCurran. I know he's not in the same class as Stokes, but I don't think we're going to find anyone who is. As I said, it doesn't look like he's thinking that way anyway. Easy for me to criticise, but I suppose it's understandable given the financial realities of the T20 alternatives.

 

[chris.hinton]

I think England will be unchanged. Anderson will be given another test now it doesn't really mean much. As for Australia i think one of the quicks will go and Murphy will be given a game to balance the side.

 

[wpdavid]

It's going to be a bit weird seeing a series without Anderson and maybe Broad, but it will also be a bit fresh - I've been watching them for thirteen years. Going on the eye test I think Atkinson has a higher ceiling than Tongue (though I've said I don't really rate the latter, which may come back to bite me). He's perhaps a tad slower (but he could get his front knee a bit straighter) but has a high action and unlike many bowlers these days bowls very close to the stumps, something I'm a big fan of. Hadn't even heard of him until this year but saw him in highlights and he really stood out.

There's been a lot of talk about Atkinson this summer, but I think I'll take your judgement ahead the bloke who wrote the slightly hyperbolic article for cricinfo recently, and turns out played with Atkinson at junior levels. But again, he's not playing as much red ball cricket as he should if he's going to continue to develop. In his case, it's not his choice. As Surrey prefer to pick the well-past-it Dan Worrall as a permanent fixture in the side, Lawes and Atkinson tend to be alternated.

 

[kevinw]

The guy who should be aiming to bat at 6 and operate as a 5th bowler in the post-Stokes test side is SCurran. I know he's not in the same class as Stokes, but I don't think we're going to find anyone who is. As I said, it doesn't look like he's thinking that way anyway. Easy for me to criticise, but I suppose it's understandable given the financial realities of the T20 alternatives.

I don't think he will be good enough at either discipline. Flintoff and Stokes are generational players. Once they go you adapt. England may just need four reliable bowlers with Root getting through the 'Collingwood' overs.

 

[wpdavid]

I don't think he will be good enough at either discipline. Flintoff and Stokes are generational players. Once they go you adapt. England may just need four reliable bowlers with Root getting through the 'Collingwood' overs.

I think that's a fair assessment at present, but I was hoping that he'd want to push on and develop. I tried to choose my wording carefully in my previous couple of posts, as he certainly doesn't warrant a palce at present. Not sure about Root being a fifth bowler, even in the short term. And I don't know how long he'll stick around anyway once Stokes is gone.

 

[social]

England have alot of exciting talent coming up, lawes, atkinson, tongue, robinson could play the next ashes.
Jamie Smith, James Rew may also play.
I want Bohannon to play in the India tour, but Pope and Crawley will be persisted with.

Australia will be worried going into the next ashes as they dont have many upcoming young batsmen, and not sure how smith and marnus' form will be in 2025-2026. Its only Cam Green

Pucovski, the great white hope, has allegedly received a clean bill of health and is back in full training

IF TRUE, and I have my doubts, that will be an huge boost

 

[wpdavid]

I think we stand a high chance of losing this one because:

1: there is no indication that the Australian bowlers will stop bowling exactly where the English batsmen want them to
2: it seems unlikely that the Australian batsmen will learn to get forward, or take a stance further forward, to the English bowlers who aren't Wood

The mind-set of the sides will be interesting. I suspect England may have had the steam taken out of them, and will struggle to be fully firing for this one. It may come down to which side is more motivated about winning / not losing the series.

 

[Molehill]

Pucovski, the great white hope, has allegedly received a clean bill of health and is back in full training

IF TRUE, and I have my doubts, that will be an huge boost

That's good to hear, although he'll obviously have to prove himself in FC Cricket first.

 

[Spark]

I still really doubt that letting him play at all is a responsible thing to do, but I guess the doctors will be the ones best placed to make that judgment. In fairness, the modern balance of research is actually that there's no real correlation between the number of concussions one sustains and CTE.

 

[Molehill]

The mind-set of the sides will be interesting. I suspect England may have had the steam taken out of them, and will struggle to be fully firing for this one. It may come down to which side is more motivated about winning / not losing the series.

I'm kind of with you on this. I suspect the Aussie celebrations in 2019 motivated the English team to come out firing at The Oval. They were also helped by a daft decision by Paine at the toss.

England could do with picking players with something to prove, Tongue should definitely play.

 

[social]

That's good to hear, although he'll obviously have to prove himself in FC Cricket first.

Saw him bat last season between breaks & he’s a class above fc stuff on pure talent

As I said, I have doubts as to his longevity which will be a real shame if it comes to pass

 

[Spark]

For all the criticism of Cummins' captaincy this series nothing comes close as a singular blunder to the decision to bowl first at the Oval. Just an astonishingly stupid idea.

 

[Qlder]

Pucovski, the great white hope, has allegedly received a clean bill of health and is back in full training

IF TRUE, and I have my doubts, that will be an huge boost

Pucovski played the recent MCC vs MCC (Melbourne) game at Lord's straight after the 2nd Test. He's currently playing for Weybridge CC in England

Will Pucovski - Weybridge Cricket Club 1st XI

Will Pucovski player profile for Weybridge Cricket Club 1st XI

www.weybridgecc.co.uk

 

[Starfighter]

I kind of agree but at the same time we've been having that discussion about where the future batting prospects since 2011. Seems to work out regardless.

Both our opening batsmen debuted then, and they had way better FC records than the guys we're considering now. Sure someone could come out of nowhere like Marnus, but I'm not keen to rely on that. I think we need better shield pitches (traditional fast and bouncy, not the green or slow and flat alternation we have now), and if what I hear on a certain other forum, less focus on white ball at junior rep level.

There's been a lot of talk about Atkinson this summer, but I think I'll take your judgement ahead the bloke who wrote the slightly hyperbolic article for cricinfo recently, and turns out played with Atkinson at junior levels. But again, he's not playing as much red ball cricket as he should if he's going to continue to develop. In his case, it's not his choice. As Surrey prefer to pick the well-past-it Dan Worrall as a permanent fixture in the side, Lawes and Atkinson tend to be alternated.

Oh it's entirely possible that he fades way to nothingness. I didn't read this article, I think it came after had noticed him. I just thought that he looked like something different, standing out from the usual parade of trundlers.

Your point about Worrall is allied to a point that I make about overseas players. Here we have Surrey preferring (playing as a domestic player) an old, experienced player. Meanwhile in Hampshire we've old fossil Barker and overseas imports Abbott and Abbas. Doesn't incentivise anyone to develop a young fast bowler except by poaching one from a weaker county.

That said, the one bowler I really like in the the current county setup (not that he gets any game time either) is Ajeet Dale. Will he amount to anything special? Probably not. But that wild, Wayne Holdsworth style sling is too much for me to ignore.

 

[Molehill]

For all the criticism of Cummins' captaincy this series nothing comes close as a singular blunder to the decision to bowl first at the Oval. Just an astonishingly stupid idea.

Don't think it'll be as obvious this week. In the CC this season no team has crossed 400, although Surrey were 247-1 in a 4th innings chase. Mind you, they also recently got bowled out for 84 in the 4th innings too. There is rain about but I suspect not enough to prevent a result this time. My guess is the toss won't be especially crucial and I'm not sure what Stokes will do when he wins it!!