*Official* Fifth Test (The Oval, London) 27-31 July

[Qlder]

Cheating Aussies. Got the rules changed after 1st Test so that no over rate penalty if less than 80 overs. Perfect for England Bazball when they make 300 in 55 overs and Australia take 110 overs to score the same

It is a bad look for WTC though, a fantastic 2-2 drawn series and teams only got 27 points instead of 56. Aus and Eng might as well forget about the WTC Final this round

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

As some of you may know I used to umpire 1st Grade Western Australian Premier cricket. Jack Leach spent a season in WA during the 2015-16 season and he played for Wannerroo Cricket Club in Premier cricket. You may recognise the umpire in the photo at the bowlers end when Jack is bowling

The Perth summer that put Leach on path to Test cricket

Jack Leach’s ascension to England’s No.1 spinner can be traced directly back to one solitary season of first-grade cricket with Wanneroo.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[Son Of Coco]

As some of you may know I used to umpire 1st Grade Western Australian Premier cricket. Jack Leach spent a season in WA during the 2015-16 season and he played for Wannerroo Cricket Club in Premier cricket. You may recognise the umpire in the photo at the bowlers end when Jack is bowling

The Perth summer that put Leach on path to Test cricket

Jack Leach’s ascension to England’s No.1 spinner can be traced directly back to one solitary season of first-grade cricket with Wanneroo.

www.perthnow.com.au

I think we need to hear some inside stories on the goings on in WA Premier cricket from a former umpire.

 

[Daemon]

Absolutely ****ing ridiculous. I'm just imagining the packed Oval crowd on day five sitting there pissed off at the over rate bellowing for Stuart Broad to be taken off so we can see Joe Root run through some overs to fill a quota. **** off.

These 2 sides have just put up a series for the ages and their getting spanked for it for essentially ripping off the punters. **** off once again.

You wouldn’t be saying this if Australia’s slow overrates resulted in a tight draw and England lost the series.

90 overs is doable. Australia did it without Lyon in 3 tests. Dozens of series have gone by with nobody getting penalised for slow overrates, even in places where spinners don’t play a part.

Is the punishment too harsh? Undoubtedly. But this bowling part timers to catch up on overrates argument is nonsense.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

I think we need to hear some inside stories on the goings on in WA Premier cricket from a former umpire.

Why would that interest you?

 

[ataraxia]

IT WILL SHOCK YOU! Solution to slow over rates revealed, puzzled cricket experts for YEARS!

Spoiler: Click this to find out!

Bowl at a quicker rate

 

[Son Of Coco]

Why would that interest you?

It's always interesting to hear stories from the inside. Most of us don't get the opportunity to be around the goings on in cricket at higher levels, especially from an umpire's point of view.

I'm not asking for too much detail, just that the stories are interesting, funny, and potentially libellous.

 

[Adders]

You wouldn’t be saying this if Australia’s slow overrates resulted in a tight draw and England lost the series.

90 overs is doable. Australia did it without Lyon in 3 tests. Dozens of series have gone by with nobody getting penalised for slow overrates, even in places where spinners don’t play a part.

Is the punishment too harsh? Undoubtedly. But this bowling part timers to catch up on overrates argument is nonsense.

Well if the WTC is important to you then yes the penalties are ridiculously harsh......since I don't care, then they are pretty meaningless. But if the ICC want the likes of me to take it seriously then they've shot themselves in the foot again with this championship debacle.

Someone else said it earlier in the thread......if a result is definitively affected by slow play then yes sanction. If it's not then who gives a ****?

Why are over rates important? So the punters get their monies worth? We've just witnessed one of the most entertaining series of all time.......is anyone at the grounds or watching on TV feeling short changed over losing a few overs a day?

 

[Spark]

Is the punishment too harsh? Undoubtedly.

So we all agree? This is the entire crux of the complaint; that it's wildly disproportionate and makes a mockery of the whole competition.

 

[G. S. Kohli]

News says Aus will keep trophy i feel sorry for eng koz if rain not washed out in 4th test they were 1000% win 4th test.Both team should shared ashes trophy too, because if they shared player of the series Starc & C. Woakes ( why not the trophy)

Uzzie with 496 also close for POTS, anyway woakes MOTM oval

 

[Socerer 01]

for all this talk of slow over rates being the only thing possible with pacers bowling all the time haven’t South Africa been okay at adhering to it in tests despite having so many fast bowlers???

 

[Qlder]

I still think England would have won 1st test if Australia bowled their allocated overs on first day. Instead of 393 off 78 Eng could have declared at 410 off 80 and had 8 overs at Aus that evening instead of only 4

That 17 runs and extra overs could have made all the difference

 

[Daemon]

So we all agree? This is the entire crux of the complaint; that it's wildly disproportionate and makes a mockery of the whole competition.

Find it very hard to disagree that bowling 8 less overs should turn a win into a draw and 4 less overs a draw to a loss.

I don’t even disagree that overrates generally don’t get in the way of my enjoyment of the game (until they do, I’m sure it’ll happen eventually).

I just have a problem with people here pretending you need to bowl part timers to hit the full quota.

 

[Skipper Pup]

News says Aus will keep trophy i feel sorry for eng koz if rain not washed out in 4th test they were 1000% win 4th test.Both team should shared ashes trophy too, because if they shared player of the series Starc & C. Woakes ( why not the trophy)

Uzzie with 496 also close for POTS, anyway woakes MOTM oval

This is where you lost me.

 

[Socerer 01]

Find it very hard to disagree that bowling 8 less overs should turn a win into a draw and 4 less overs a draw to a loss.

I don’t even disagree that overrates generally don’t get in the way of my enjoyment of the game (until they do, I’m sure it’ll happen eventually).

I just have a problem with people here pretending you need to bowl part timers to hit the full quota.

its a disingenuous thing they claim to discredit the real issue just like how they all don’t care about wtc yet post saying that they don’t care about it everytime

 

[trundler]

So we all agree? This is the entire crux of the complaint; that it's wildly disproportionate and makes a mockery of the whole competition.

No. There is no point of the penalties if they don't actually affect WTC standings as they wouldn't serve as an effective deterrent otherwise. There's no point in docking an insignificant number of points. That would just be a slap on a wrist.

England's over rates were abysmal throughout the series. They weren't short a few overs in a test, they were leaving 10+ overs unbowled per day so no wonder they've lost a lot of points. As they should.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

It's always interesting to hear stories from the inside. Most of us don't get the opportunity to be around the goings on in cricket at higher levels, especially from an umpire's point of view.

I'm not asking for too much detail, just that the stories are interesting, funny, and potentially libellous.

Yeah there's always a story or two.

 

[Spark]

No. There is no point of the penalties if they don't actually affect WTC standings as they wouldn't serve as an effective deterrent otherwise. There's no point in docking an insignificant number of points. That would just be a slap on a wrist.

England's over rates were abysmal throughout the series. They weren't short a few overs in a test, they were leaving 10+ overs unbowled per day so no wonder they've lost a lot of points. As they should.

So you think it's proportionate that having 19 overs unbowled across the series is worth the equivalent of two full Test matches?

I mean, why stop there? Ban teams who bowl slowly. Break the legs of bowlers who don't bowl overs quickly enough. Put the captains' heads on spikes. It's an effective deterrent after all.

"It's an effective deterrent" is not a reasonable or sufficient justification for penalty on its own. Proportionate punishments matter in this case as in literally every single other case.

its a disingenuous thing they claim to discredit the real issue just like how they all don’t care about wtc yet post saying that they don’t care about it everytime

Or perhaps it's because a really good concept that could be vital in maintaining the health of Test cricket long term is being ruined by consistent ineptitude on the ICC's behalf in designing a reasonable scoring system.

 

[trundler]

So you think it's proportionate that having 19 overs unbowled across the series is worth the equivalent of two full Test matches?

They lost 19 points for being short by 19 overs so yes. Bowling your overs on time isn't hard so they had it coming.

Ban teams who bowl slowly

Sign me up.

The fact that people are moaning about it should make this an effective system, slippery slopes notwithstanding.

 

[Spark]

They lost 19 points for being short by 19 overs so yes. Bowling your overs on time isn't hard so they had it coming.

If you really believe this is true then you should be consistent about this. Would you support Australia being declared series winners? After all, 8 overs is now worth a Test win. So Australia won the series 1-0. Do you think that would be what the spectators want to see? That's meant to be the entire point of this stuff after all. I'm sure people getting into the sport for the first time will think it entirely reasonable that you can have entire results scrubbed out because you were effectively one and a half hours late across over fifty hours of sport; they definitely aren't going to go "lmao what a complete joke of a sport that they actually have that as a set punishment, purportedly to ensure fan engagement."

The other alternative, of course, is that we're not consistent about this, we don't actually believe this to be place, and thus this renders the WTC a farce. Which it was already.

The fact that people are moaning about it should make this an effective system, slippery slopes notwithstanding.

I hope you're not involved in designing systems that affect other actual human beings. "If people complain about it, it must be working!"