*Official* Fifth Test at the SCG

[morgieb]

Borthwick in apparently.

Kerrigan 2.0? Even that's generous.

 

[Spikey]

Or it might be that this immediate past crop of players was an aberration and County Cricket is still as poor a system for producing test players as it was from the late 80s to the early 2000s.

It's not like the county system has gone about without criticism over these past few years anyway.

 

[grecian]

It's not like the county system has gone about without criticism over these past few years anyway.

Well it's a vastly different county system than the one that existed in the 80s.

 

[Spikey]

Certainly, but the changes made in recent years to encourage the playing of young English players has hardly increased the standard, and that's been called out at times by some people.

 

[grecian]

Certainly, but the changes made in recent years to encourage the playing of young English players has hardly increased the standard, and that's been called out at times by some people.

Oh I agree, I don't really know why I quoted you and not Burgey, hungover probably.

Yes, it's always getting criticised, and it's far from perfect, but it has been better this millennium, I reckon.

 

[GIMH]

Bumble saying it'll be Borthwick, Ballance and Rankin coming in.

 

[social]

England beat Australia: "oh County Cricket is great because young players play regularly and can learn/develop their games; the Sheffield Shield isn't long enough/doesn't have enough teams and the players break down from not having worked hard; 16 games a season is 6 games better than 10 a season"

Australia beat England: "oh the County Cricket system is broken because young players play too much and get into bad habits and get injured from overwork and 18 teams mean the player quality is diluted; the Sheffield Shield gets the balance right by only having 6"

There was an article in one of the English rags recently that could have been lifted straight from the Oz press after the 2010-11 Ashes when people were calling for a review of the game in this country

Made pretty much all the same points (poor pitches in CC, too much emphasis on shorter formats, no good young bats, etc etc) but referred to the English game rather than Oz

 

[Scaly piscine]

****'s sake how many times do I have to read the 'player x thrown to the wolves... will ruin his career' - it's absolute turd. Cause and effect. Warne got smashed - so surely the way to go is to get smashed and become an all-time great right? Ugh the logic is beyond flawed.

Borthwick is a leg spinner playing for Durham - so most of the time he gets a prolonged bowl the pitch is a road and getting smacked goes with the territory, but he is as much if not moreso a batsman who bowls than a bowler who bats. He's also a very good fielder and that will be valuable as well.

 

[Flametree]

So Borthwick is about where Steve Smith was three years ago?

 

[theegyptian]

Bumble saying it'll be Borthwick, Ballance and Rankin coming in.

Means Finn is the only one of the original squad not to get a game. Talking about depressing for Finny.

This latest injury of Monty's may mean he's played his last test. Last year or so he's been beset with injuries and disciplinary problems. Now that's almost certainly linked to his bad bowling during the period but I doubt England have much faith or good will to Monty going forward. Bowling well he's clearly the best of the options and bowling averagely as he has for a year he's still the best bet. But his fielding is rancid, offers nothing with the bat and his behaviour is unpredictable in a bad way. I can see them just cleaning house with Monty in the summer if he doesn't start the season well.

Borthwick should bat above Bairstow imo. Put him at 7 and he might hang around with the last batsman and let Bairstow slog a few with the tail. Or open with Borthwick as a troll.

 

[theegyptian]

There was an article in one of the English rags recently that could have been lifted straight from the Oz press after the 2010-11 Ashes when people were calling for a review of the game in this country

Made pretty much all the same points (poor pitches in CC, too much emphasis on shorter formats, no good young bats, etc etc) but referred to the English game rather than Oz

tbf plenty of the english press guys comment on the poor standard of domestic games on twitter but whilst England are winning there just isn't the appetite for the papers to write a story about the poor structure of the game. This kind of stuff is only going to be highlighted when you're losing, that's inevitable to a degree. The ECB recognise some of this and that's why so much emphasis is put on lions and performance squad, future players squads etc

Andrew Strauss is fairly critical of the county game in his autobiography.

The main problem imo with the English county game is that there are too many counties play too much cricket and all the other problems stem from that. I for one have been railing about the structure of county cricket on here and the relentess schedule for a while now. Unfortunately the long and prestigious history of the championship means it's very hard to make big changes.

 

[theegyptian]

So Borthwick is about where Steve Smith was three years ago?

Probably. Zampa the young aussie leg break looks a better spin bowler than Borthwick. Borthwick at least still wants to be a spin bowler which is one advantage he has over Smith currently.

 

[Scaly piscine]

So Borthwick is about where Steve Smith was three years ago?

Borthwick is a better bowler, but not enough to make much of a difference generally due to the nature of leg spin and the calibre of Test batsmen.

Borthwick is far better technically with the bat - batting at 3 for Durham is tough. Neither hit many boundaries.

 

[theegyptian]

Borthwick is a better bowler, but not enough to make much of a difference generally due to the nature of leg spin and the calibre of Test batsmen.

Borthwick is far better technically with the bat - batting at 3 for Durham is tough. Neither hit many boundaries.

WOuldn't really say Borthwick is far better technically or anything. But as you suggest he got tough runs last year. Him and Stoneman were the two batsmen who really stood up for Durham to win the title- so in that respect he's probably got a good head on him.

 

[NZTailender]

What happened to Tremlett?

 

[morgieb]

What happened to Tremlett?

Injuries ruined his pace. Was basically a medium-pacer in the Brisbane test (though still took a few wickets). His test career is probably over.

 

[Prince EWS]

England beat Australia: "oh County Cricket is great because young players play regularly and can learn/develop their games; the Sheffield Shield isn't long enough/doesn't have enough teams and the players break down from not having worked hard; 16 games a season is 6 games better than 10 a season"

Australia beat England: "oh the County Cricket system is broken because young players play too much and get into bad habits and get injured from overwork and 18 teams mean the player quality is diluted; the Sheffield Shield gets the balance right by only having 6"

Haha yeah exactly. FWIW I think there are too many teams in county cricket and there are too few games in the Shield season, but neither of these faults is losing its national team the Ashes every time.

 

[andyc]

So Borthwick is about where Steve Smith was three years ago?

Steve Smith took 3/51 off 21 on debut. No way will Borthwick manage that. Might snag a few but I can't see his economy rate being near that.

 

[Tangles]

How many balls into his spell before an Aussie bombs him for 6?

 

[Furball]

Haha yeah exactly. FWIW I think there are too many teams in county cricket and there are too few games in the Shield season, but neither of these faults is losing its national team the Ashes every time.

Haha yeah IMO both systems have their plus sides and their flaws. The big problem with County Cricket though isn't necessarily the number of teams, given the 2 division structure, it's the playing a million games of short form cricket in between FC games that's the problem.

edit: I've actually got an idea of what I'd do to reform the English game but I cbf actually writing it all down.