*Official* English Football Season 2014-15

[Uppercut]

Tbf, golden or not it was, on paper, an England side of quality we could only dream of now

James was average - keeper was the weak spot
Neville - class
Campbell/Terry/Ferdinand - clas
Cole - best in the world at that point
Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes - all class but clearly couldn't all fit into the same side
Rooney/Owen - class

Sadly they all peaked separately, didn't work as well as a team as you might (or might not) have suspected and the backups were by and large not of the same quality

Was it a golden generation? Probably not but on paper the best England side of my time.

It seems crazy in hindsight that Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney were all picked in the same team when they were all playing basically the same position for their clubs. We kept hearing worthless stuff like "if they're good players they'll make it work" trying to justify not having to make a decision on who to leave out.

The media still feels a bit dumbed down but when you think about it it's amazing how far it's come since ten years ago. Mourinho and Benitez were operating on a whole different level when it came to appreciating players' strengths and weaknesses and working out how to get the best out of them.

 

[sledger]

Tbf, golden or not it was, on paper, an England side of quality we could only dream of now

James was average - keeper was the weak spot
Neville - class
Campbell/Terry/Ferdinand - clas
Cole - best in the world at that point
Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes - all class but clearly couldn't all fit into the same side
Rooney/Owen - class

Sadly they all peaked separately, didn't work as well as a team as you might (or might not) have suspected and the backups were by and large not of the same quality

Was it a golden generation? Probably not but on paper the best England side of my time.

Tbf though, by the time the "golden generation" all played together, Neville was probably past his best. He hadn't descended into complete direness, but he was already beginning to look like a shadow of his former self iirc. Owen also probably reached his peak around the time that the type of player he was had began to go out of fashion as well.

 

[sledger]

Anyway, on the subject of foreigners ruining the English game, Tim Vickery made a good point on World Football Phone in the other night. England had a bad tournament, of course, but how many Premiership-based players at all played well?

 

[GIMH]

I mainly had Euro 04 in mind which is certainly a tournament we could have won. IMO. Reckon had Rooney not broken his foot we would have done tbh. Owen was still top notch at that point

And while I take Uppercut's point, Gerrard had played a deep lying role that season. Mainly because Houllier was a bit of a tool but still, Sven probably could have made it work a bit better than he did

Probably would have had Joe Cole in for Lampard, in hindsight. Even if you think Fat Frank is better than Gerrard, he certainly wasn't at that point and you could still play Scholes in the attacking role then.

 

[sledger]

Tbf though, by the time the "golden generation" all played together, Neville was probably past his best. He hadn't descended into complete direness, but he was already beginning to look like a shadow of his former self iirc. Owen also probably reached his peak around the time that the type of player he was had began to go out of fashion as well.

Also, I think David James gets a raw deal when assessing that generation of players. Not singling you out here, but I think this is generally the case amongst plenty of people. He always struck me as a sort of footballing equivalent of Greg Rusedski - one day he could look like an absolutely phenomenal bona fide world class performer, and then on other days he's be all over the shop. Having said that, despite his calamity James reputation, he was actually a pretty solid and consistent performer for England. I can recall countless gaffes he made whilst playing domestically, but don't remember any really terrible ones he made when playing for England. He's definitely the best Goalkeeper England have had since Seaman in my opinion, and far better than Paul Robinson who won a similar amount of caps, but never seems to get singled out for criticism.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Get past Brazil and the World Cup in 2002 was pretty winnable as well. Although it was before the time of some of the so-called golden generation.

 

[GIMH]

Also, I think David James gets a raw deal when assessing that generation of players. Not singling you out here, but I think this is generally the case amongst plenty of people. He always struck me as a sort of footballing equivalent of Greg Rusedski - one day he could look like an absolutely phenomenal bona fide world class performer, and then on other days he's be all over the shop. Having said that, despite his calamity James reputation, he was actually a pretty solid and consistent performer for England. I can recall countless gaffes he made whilst playing domestically, but don't remember any really terrible ones he made when playing for England. He's definitely the best Goalkeeper England have had since Seaman in my opinion, and far better than Paul Robinson who won a similar amount of caps, but never seems to get singled out for criticism.

Austria away I think, in the 06 WC qualifiers

 

[sledger]

I mainly had Euro 04 in mind which is certainly a tournament we could have won. IMO. Reckon had Rooney not broken his foot we would have done tbh. Owen was still top notch at that point

And while I take Uppercut's point, Gerrard had played a deep lying role that season. Mainly because Houllier was a bit of a tool but still, Sven probably could have made it work a bit better than he did

Probably would have had Joe Cole in for Lampard, in hindsight. Even if you think Fat Frank is better than Gerrard, he certainly wasn't at that point and you could still play Scholes in the attacking role then.

Nah, the Gerrard backpass (I suddenly feel like we've been here before...) in the France game led to them scoring and making a comeback, and cost England first place in the group. Had they been in the other half of the draw they wouldn't have met Portugal and gone out on pens. Gerrard cost England the tournament tbh.

 

[Uppercut]

Anyway, on the subject of foreigners ruining the English game, Tim Vickery made a good point on World Football Phone in the other night. England had a bad tournament, of course, but how many Premiership-based players at all played well?

Yeah I never thought of that. It's actually kind of remarkable. Mert was dropped for being really dodgy against Algeria, Podolski didn't play much, Ozil was Germany's worst player of those who did. Aguero was terrible (albeit clearly unfit), Zabaleta was OK I suppose but not as good as he is for Citeh. I suppose Demichelis was pretty good when he played.

All of Brazil's Premiership contingent were varying levels of ****e. RVP was good but faded badly. Ron Vlaar was genuinely excellent, surely the best Premiership player at the tournament, which pretty much sums it up.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Also, I think David James gets a raw deal when assessing that generation of players. Not singling you out here, but I think this is generally the case amongst plenty of people. He always struck me as a sort of footballing equivalent of Greg Rusedski - one day he could look like an absolutely phenomenal bona fide world class performer, and then on other days he's be all over the shop. Having said that, despite his calamity James reputation, he was actually a pretty solid and consistent performer for England. I can recall countless gaffes he made whilst playing domestically, but don't remember any really terrible ones he made when playing for England. He's definitely the best Goalkeeper England have had since Seaman in my opinion, and far better than Paul Robinson who won a similar amount of caps, but never seems to get singled out for criticism.

Agree with this. Mainly I think this is because when he was busy acquiring his Calamity James reputation, he wasn't in the England side. By the time he was in the England side he was actually in pretty good form for club and country (I remember him being generally regarded as among the PL's best keepers a bit later on in 06-07 sort of time). However despite the fact that he was playing well the Calamity James reputation had stuck. It is admittedly a vague memory but I seem to remember James turning in a number of good performances for England around the mid-2000s and just earlier sort of time.

 

[sledger]

Austria away I think, in the 06 WC qualifiers

Oh yeah, had forgotten about that. Well, even great keepers make them from time to time.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah James was pretty solid for England. He was typecast as error-prone because of that comedy run at Liverpool which he blamed on his Nintendo. So he really didn't get away with the odd error that every keeper makes.

 

[sledger]

Agree with this. Mainly I think this is because when he was busy acquiring his Calamity James reputation, he wasn't in the England side. By the time he was in the England side he was actually in pretty good form for club and country (I remember him being generally regarded as among the PL's best keepers a bit later on in 06-07 sort of time). However despite the fact that he was playing well the Calamity James reputation had stuck. It is admittedly a vague memory but I seem to remember James turning in a number of good performances for England around the mid-2000s and just earlier sort of time.

Yeah, same. Also, whilst he continued to make the odd really peculiar mistake in the Premiership, I remember he would routinely put in really top quality performances, particularly in his Man City and early Portsmouth days. I can recall watching several games for both sides where they won 1-0 after James' goal was bombarded for prolonged periods, and he pretty much won them the match. Around that time he was the kind of goalkeeper who was probably worth about 10 points in the league table each season, and good as a number of other goalkeepers are, I can't think of all that many you could say that of.

 

[sledger]

Yeah James was pretty solid for England. He was typecast as error-prone because of that comedy run at Liverpool which he blamed on his Nintendo. So he really didn't get away with the odd error that every keeper makes.

Haha, no no, you've got it all wrong. He was constantly up all night playing Tekken 3 on his Playstation!

I remember him revealing this in some BBC documentary once, where he made the claim that he was a perfectionist (har-har, I know). Apparently he's a really keen artist, and draws these really elaborate pictures. But if he makes a tiny mistake, regardless of how much progress he has made, he gets really upset and screws the whole thing up and starts again.

Anyway, on the subject of more David James amusement, I saw a video of him the other day when he went along to Middlesex CC to learn how to be a wicketkeeper. Rather amusing.

 

[sledger]

Yeah I never thought of that. It's actually kind of remarkable. Mert was dropped for being really dodgy against Algeria, Podolski didn't play much, Ozil was Germany's worst player of those who did. Aguero was terrible (albeit clearly unfit), Zabaleta was OK I suppose but not as good as he is for Citeh. I suppose Demichelis was pretty good when he played.

All of Brazil's Premiership contingent were varying levels of ****e. RVP was good but faded badly. Ron Vlaar was genuinely excellent, surely the best Premiership player at the tournament, which pretty much sums it up.

Yeah, it hadn't occurred to me either. It's a very interesting point though. I wonder how other tournaments in recent memory compare in this regard.

 

[sledger]

Also, it's just dawned on me that Roy Makaay is a dead ringer for Rat Boy.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Tbf, golden or not it was, on paper, an England side of quality we could only dream of now

James was average - keeper was the weak spot
Neville - class
Campbell/Terry/Ferdinand - clas
Cole - best in the world at that point
Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes - all class but clearly couldn't all fit into the same side
Rooney/Owen - class

Sadly they all peaked separately, didn't work as well as a team as you might (or might not) have suspected and the backups were by and large not of the same quality

Was it a golden generation? Probably not but on paper the best England side of my time.

Possibly.

I think they would have done better with Venables as manager as he didn't put square pegs in round holes. Euro 96 he had Steve Stone who was average but was the best we had in that position at the time. Shearer and Sheringham worked as a partnership which Owen and Rooney never did and we played some attractive football. For me the Euro 96 team was more of a team despite having less individual talent than some later sides but they were like Costa Rica and Colombia at this world cup A TEAM.

 

[grecian]

Possibly.

I think they would have done better with Venables as manager as he didn't put square pegs in round holes. Euro 96 he had Steve Stone who was average but was the best we had in that position at the time. Shearer and Sheringham worked as a partnership which Owen and Rooney never did and we played some attractive football. For me the Euro 96 team was more of a team despite having less individual talent than some later sides but they were like Costa Rica and Colombia at this world cup A TEAM.

The most over-rated team in English history for me. Dire against the Swiss, lucky against the Jocks, outplayed by Spain.

Yet I feel these arguments have been had before. Yet it really is hard to gauge a Team with Home advantage against all the other England Teams. I thought Sven pretty much did a good match with various people in 2002, like Sinclair who was a revelation. We played pretty well in that Tournament, except second-half against Brazil.

 

[Pothas]

Enough of this England talk.

Did you see or hear anything of Scott Hogan last year?

 

[Jarquis]

Yeah I never thought of that. It's actually kind of remarkable. Mert was dropped for being really dodgy against Algeria, Podolski didn't play much, Ozil was Germany's worst player of those who did. Aguero was terrible (albeit clearly unfit), Zabaleta was OK I suppose but not as good as he is for Citeh. I suppose Demichelis was pretty good when he played.

All of Brazil's Premiership contingent were varying levels of ****e. RVP was good but faded badly. Ron Vlaar was genuinely excellent, surely the best Premiership player at the tournament, which pretty much sums it up.

Heh.