*Official* English Football Season 2013-14

[Cabinet96]

Hate the idea that Bayern beat Guardiola's Barca last year. They did not. That Barcelona side was better than Bayern were last year.

He didn't say that Bayern beat Pep's Barca, he's saying Bayern have become last years Barca. That's how I'd interpret it anyway.

 

[Cevno]

Result suits Real pretty well.

Can play on the counter with the clinical pace and power they have upfront.

 

[Ikki]

Hate the idea that Bayern beat Guardiola's Barca last year. They did not. That Barcelona side was better than Bayern were last year.

Disagree. Pep's Barca side were still pretty flawed against counter-attacking teams (Chelsea 4 penalty game; Inter) and Bayern perfected the balance between knowing when to suffocate your opponent with the ball and when to sit back and then scythe the opposition on the break.

We'll never know though. For me, this Bayern team has regressed. So predictable, much like the Barca of the post-Guardiola days except with decent defenders.

 

[Cevno]

That Barca side at their peak pressed like Crazy and had Messi....


Last year's Barca had regressed though.

 

[Cabinet96]

Bayern will probably have to win by two in Munich because I can't see Real not getting an away goal.

 

[Pothas]

Don't know if this is a reply to me or not but, stylistically at least, Barcelona last year were very similar to Pep's Barcelona, basically less a bit of pressing. I mean Barcelona dominated possession last year in both legs and lost 7-0. Bayern couldn't do that now.

They were so much worse though. Just think back to that Barcelona side that destroyed Madrid 5-0, people have already forgot how good that side was.

I don't disagree with how Bayern played tonight though, they were undeniably poor.

 

[Tom Halsey]

They were so much worse though. Just think back to that Barcelona side that destroyed Madrid 5-0, people have already forgot how good that side was.

I don't disagree with how Bayern played tonight though, they were undeniably poor.

They weren't that much worse. I'm as big a fan of Pep's Barcelona as anyone but they had very clear weaknesses. I think that sort of tie against Bayern was waiting to happen, Pep or no Pep tbh. As Ikki says, look at the Chelsea game in 2009. That wasn't even a particularly good Chelsea side yet a competent ref and they win by several goals.

 

[sledger]

Result suits Real pretty well.

Can play on the counter with the clinical pace and power they have upfront.

Of course it does, they won the bloody match.

 

[Pothas]

I think they were quite obviously worse, and had been all season.

It is quite interesting listening to the Sky lot talk about this game and it is all about Bayern, hardly a mention of Real. They are still a huge club and a very good team....

 

[Tom Halsey]

I think they were quite obviously worse, and had been all season.

They won the league with as many points as they ever managed under Pep.

You can cite Real Madrid matches but Barcelona still match up well against Real Madrid. They did the double over them this year. The point is that vs certain counter attacking sides, they always have had weaknesses, and losing Pep hasn't really changed that.

A competent ref and they would have won only one European Cup in four years of Pep. Obviously still impressive, but.

I don't know how this came up anyway as I didn't compare Bayern to Pep's Barcelona, only the style. Barcelona still play similarly stylistically minus the pressing, and we're now two years removed.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think they were quite obviously worse, and had been all season.

Not sure about this tbh. They looked really good in the Autumn. Seemed to still have the pace and dynamism of the Heynckes team but with more slick passing. Like Pep's Barca but with a greater physical dominance. They were scoring loads and dominating. Remember the game at City? As the season's gone on they seem to have lost the same pace to the side. Most people have cited the recent poor performances in the Bundesliga as them not giving a ****, but it doesn't explain the dip in performance in the CL since the knockout stage.

 

[Pothas]

The pressing was pretty much integral to that particular style though. Fair enough if you were not directly comparing I just thought it was a fairly obvious comparison given who now manages Bayern.

I guess it comes down to if you think that defeats like this invalidate this particular way of playing, I am in no way a slavish devotee to it (probably not even my favourite style of football) but I don't think it does. It has won two Euros and a World Cup after all. Sure it has its weaknesses but so does every other way of playing.

 

[Pothas]

Not sure about this tbh. They looked really good in the Autumn. Seemed to still have the pace and dynamism of the Heynckes team but with more slick passing. Like Pep's Barca but with a greater physical dominance. They were scoring loads and dominating. Remember the game at City? As the season's gone on they seem to have lost the same pace to the side. Most people have cited the recent poor performances in the Bundesliga as them not giving a ****, but it doesn't explain the dip in performance in the CL since the knockout stage.

I was talking about Barcelona last season not Bayern this.

I don't ever watch the Budesliga so can't comment on that but agree entierly they were amazing against City, don't look anything like that at all now.

 

[Furball]

They weren't that much worse. I'm as big a fan of Pep's Barcelona as anyone but they had very clear weaknesses. I think that sort of tie against Bayern was waiting to happen, Pep or no Pep tbh. As Ikki says, look at the Chelsea game in 2009. That wasn't even a particularly good Chelsea side yet a competent ref and they win by several goals.

What about a competent ref in the first leg?

Wasn't aware it was the ref's fault that Chelsea conspired to miss several sitters that night either.

 

[Ikki]

The pressing was pretty much integral to that particular style though. Fair enough if you were not directly comparing I just thought it was a fairly obvious comparison given who now manages Bayern.

I guess it comes down to if you think that defeats like this invalidate this particular way of playing, I am in no way a slavish devotee to it (probably not even my favourite style of football) but I don't think it does. It has won two Euros and a World Cup after all. Sure it has its weaknesses but so does every other way of playing.

It's clearly an effective way of playing, but Barca/Spain had a comparative advantage at the time as no one really played it that way and more teams have learned to deal with it now.

 

[Uppercut]

Clearly counter-attacking is by far the best way to play against a Pep side but they'd so obviously regressed a lot by last year. Just looking at the players, Puyol, Pique, Alves, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi have all either regressed and not been adequately replaced, or were injured for that game.

At their best they conceded very few goals. The Sunday League set piece defending that got Bayern most of their goals just wasn't there.

It seems odd to write Pep off since they still have a decent chance of going through. But they're not too pretty to watch at the moment, playing a lot more like Spain than Pep's Barca.

 

[Uppercut]

It's clearly an effective way of playing, but Barca/Spain had a comparative advantage at the time as no one really played it that way and more teams have learned to deal with it now.

Yeah this is definitely true. It's not obsolete but it needs a tweak of some sort, they need to find a more reliable way to get past the packed defences.

 

[Furball]

Yeah this is definitely true. It's not obsolete but it needs a tweak of some sort, they need to find a more reliable way to get past the packed defences.

Don't play as high up the pitch, draw opposition defences out, exploit gaps left in behind.

The biggest con of doing that is that makes you worse defensively; Barcelona were outstanding defensively because a) they played so high up the park and b) pressed so high up the park that opposition teams got nowhere near Barcelona's goal.

The other problem facing Bayern is width, or lack thereof. Similar problem to that suffered by latter day Barcelona under Pep; he seems to want to cram as many central midfielders into the side as possible. Leads to a dominance in possession but very little meaningful stuff.

He could probably do with playing Müller a bit more as well; I've no idea why he doesn't.

edit: Robben should go into the number 10 role as well, sticking him on the right exacerbates Bayern's lack of width. Stick Müller out on the right hand side for a bit of penetration from out there.

edit 2: actually playing with a bit of pace wouldn't hurt Bayern either. Playing tippy tappy ****e in front of the defence is fine when you're 2-0 up and playing proactive, defensive football which Spain/Barca perfected but it's a ****e tactic when you're losing 1-0 down. When you consider that they've got guys like Müller and Robben in their side, their lack of directness in their play is astonishing.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yep. The only way Bayern have been getting goals recently is when someone gets space in the box (also how their best chances - Götze and Müller - came about) and it's really hard to do that when sides have loads of people back in the box, and the reason that occurs is because they play slow stuff high up the field.

 

[Furball]

It's a shame Dortmund were so ****ing wasteful at the Bernebeau.