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*Official* English Football Season 2007-08
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
Matteh
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Hence my incredulity.
Matteh
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If England go a goal up, guaranteed they'll do that. They've done it a lot over the last 5 years, France and Macedonia being obvious examples.
Agent TBY
International Captain
Sven back already?
Tom Halsey
International Coach
They're both simply not very good, we went out with Sven in three quarter-finals and Sven was at least partially to blame, especially in '04.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
The older CWers will remember the qualifiers for the 1982 WC when we played appallingly, lost horribly in Switzerland & Norway but stayed in the hunt because Switzerland won in Rumania against the odds - IIRC one of their goals bounced in off the keeper after hitting the post and the other came from some teenager who never did a thing afterwards running through the Rumanian defence. After that, we needed a draw against the already qualified Hungarians at Wembley. Sounds familiar? On that occasion, Mariner managed to stick a boot on a shot from Brooking that was going wide to secure the win.
Back to the present day, I remain appalled that Barry has been dropped as a convenient scapegoat for the Russian debacle. So he had a poor second half in that game. That still leaves us 45 minutes, which is more than I've seen Gerrard & Lampard produce between them in many a game. I suppose Owen's injury gives the manager the get-out of playing a five man midfield with Gerrard & Lampard taking turns to support Crouch, but I really was hoping for something less spineless from the new manager after he ditched Beckham on Day 1. Given Beckham's patent lack of match fitness, we'd be better off playing Gerrard on the right with Barry & Lamps in the middle, but I don't see that happening simply because Gerrard will whine and nowadays England managers don't stand up tot he big names.
EDIT
I should have added that, with no disrespect to the previous posters, all this talk of christmas tree formations frightens the life out of me given that this is a cannot-afford-to-lose situation. I'm not especially convinced the players will enjoy 4-5-1, although I think it's what he'll do. Gotta love England managers' occasional forays into unfamiliar new formations in crucial games.
Back to the present day, I remain appalled that Barry has been dropped as a convenient scapegoat for the Russian debacle. So he had a poor second half in that game. That still leaves us 45 minutes, which is more than I've seen Gerrard & Lampard produce between them in many a game. I suppose Owen's injury gives the manager the get-out of playing a five man midfield with Gerrard & Lampard taking turns to support Crouch, but I really was hoping for something less spineless from the new manager after he ditched Beckham on Day 1. Given Beckham's patent lack of match fitness, we'd be better off playing Gerrard on the right with Barry & Lamps in the middle, but I don't see that happening simply because Gerrard will whine and nowadays England managers don't stand up tot he big names.
EDIT
I should have added that, with no disrespect to the previous posters, all this talk of christmas tree formations frightens the life out of me given that this is a cannot-afford-to-lose situation. I'm not especially convinced the players will enjoy 4-5-1, although I think it's what he'll do. Gotta love England managers' occasional forays into unfamiliar new formations in crucial games.
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wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
It's what we do. In almost 60 years of international competition, we've only got further than that 3 times in either the WC or EC. Two of those were in England, and on the other occasion we were dead lucky to get as far as the quarters.
That was against Portugal in Portugal, no? When Rooney went off injured and we were a bit unlucky to have goal disallowed. Admittedly SGE should've taken Beckham off so that we'd at least have 11 on the pitch & actually playing, but that's about it IIRC.
As the other guys said, our players just aren't all that special. The absurd myth of the golden generation has been well & truly shown up at the last couple of tournaments.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Northern Ireland
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Went absurdly defensive and just invited pressure onto us - prior to that, we had been dominating them, with Rooney off.
The ridiculous overhype the media gave it every big tournament was never realistic - as soon as it started going wrong, which was inevitable, Sven invariably sat back and let it happen. Admittedly in 02 we simply went out to a better side which is fair enough, but in 04 and 06 we didn't (even if it did take the lottery of penalties to put us out, plus a **** decision in 04).
Sven is arguably a good club manager - though aside from Lazio IIRC his record isn't that special (though I could be wrong) - and I don't think City will finish that high up the league this season btw - but he wasn't a good international manager IMO, even if McLaren is currently making him look like God.
Our players play very well for their club sides, and don't for the national side - simple as, IMO.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
My point is it shouldn't be what we do, and accepting it is basically typical of the English.
Why is it that we get the overhype of "this is our year" every major tournament, and then as soon as we're out in the quarters, "ah well, we're used to it?" I'm not saying you're guilty of overhyping everything as you don't strike me as that kind of person - this is just a general rant - but the general football fan overhypes it then says as soon as we've gone that it had been obvious we were never going to get anywhere all along.
As I said in my previous post, many of our top players play very well for their club sides, and don't for England - which is no coincidence IMO.
Matteh
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Because English people have had that attitude for years.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Well yes, that was my point.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Actually, I agree with your first point, and I probably misinterpreted your earlier one when I wrote what I did, which was just trying to put SGE's reign in some kind of perspective. It kind of links to the "greatest chokers" thread from a few weeks back, where I commented that we generally freeze against the big sides in WC's, whereas the Germans or Italians would win their share of those games.
Beyond that, my take on the matter has shifted over the years. For decades, I held the managers responsible for our failings - Ramsey withdrawing Charlton in 1970, Revie obscenely wasting the talent at his disposal in the mid1970's, Greenwood making an absolute pigs ear of the qualifiers for 1982 and then not using Hoddle even though Brooking was injured, Robson twice using the finals to find a new formation, Taylor being embarassingly our of his depth, etc, etc. Hoddle was the one guy I thought was genuinely unlucky, with Campbell's criminally disallowed goal and Beckham's stupidity reducing us to 10 men. Nowadays, when you look at the reduced fixture list, the much more settled first XI (as opposed to the cast of 100's in the friendlies), the support they have, the experience in the Champions League - I tend to hold the players 90% responsible. The number of times that the big names have basically done nothing can only lead me to conclude that they just don't care enough, whatever noises they might make to the contrary. I do think that SGE lacked the balls to stand up to the biggest names, and obviously SM is almost Tayloresque in terms of being out of his depth, but most of the sides picked have been reasonable and all too often the players just don't show up.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I think you'll find....
it's actually 4 times. Got to the semis of the 1968 European championships too.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
It's a fair cop guv. And a great picture
I think you'll find....
it's actually 4 times. Got to the semis of the 1968 European championships too.
Any idea who we beat to get that far?
EDIT
Wiki had the details - the home championships over two seasons took us to the quarter finals, where we beat Spain home & away. It was all a couple of years before I took an interest, but I do remember reading about in Bobby Moore's autobiography. Since we're in trivia mode, which England player made history (in a bad way) in the semi that we lost to Yugoslavia?
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BoyBrumby
Englishman
First red IIRC. Gonna say Mullery, but wouldn't stake much on it.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Mullery it was. Goodness know what you had to do to be sent off in those days though.
I remember Ball being the second Englishman to take the long walk in Poland in 1973, and Trevor Cherry being dismissed for having a few teeth punched out in Argentina in 1977.
EDIT
I meant to add, in fully pedantic mode, that Mullery didn't actually get shown a red card in 1968, as they weren't introduced until the 1970 WC.
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