*Official* English Domestic Season Thread 2010

[Scaly piscine]

Oh and apart from all that batting v Durham is one of the few things people will sit up and take any notice of. They're dragging the level of others up with them. It's a step up from the normal county level and nearer to something like Test cricket.

Not too great when not one of the MCC players can make 50 against them.

 

[Furball]

Genuine question - how much of a Kolpak influence has there been at Durham in the last couple of years?

 

[TT Boy]

Bloody good hiding.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Genuine question - how much of a Kolpak influence has there been at Durham in the last couple of years?

Benkenstein and Gibson made huge contributions, but can probably take a lot of credit for developing some of the natural talent that was knocking around there already.

Wiseman (was he Kolpak?) and Breese were your average, innocuous county offspinners mind.

 

[The_roc]

Serial failure except he pisses all over Broad and Anderson's record. So what does that make those two?

Davies - constantly lightly years ahead of any other bowler in county cricket. As if there aren't other players being selected who are constantly injured.

Plunkett got the standard fob-off call-up that meant nothing as he didn't get a game. Same as Davies. Both mysteriously leapfrogged by inferior players.

Blackwell should be in the limited overs squads and is a much better option than Tredwell for the Test squad.

Ian Blackwell – as a Somerset supporter I’ve probably seen more of him than you. He was brilliant at county level but averaged less than 15 in 34 ODI’s. He will never get in the England team again because he’s fat, lazy and his attitude stinks.

Harmless – became world ranked No 1 on the back of an excellent series against the Windies in 2004 (remember the 7 for 12?). Since the fateful day in Brisbane, 23 November 2006 (you remember the one where his first ball went closer to the point fielder than the keeper) he has taken 47 wickets at an average of 43.

Liam Plunkett – 23 test match wickets at 40 a time. 28 ODI’s with an economy rate of 5.85. Last season PCA ranked 51, just below Saj Mahmood. Doesn’t sound like the sort of player who is knocking on the test match door.

Graham Onions – His test average of 31 looks ok until you realise that he benefits from 10 wickets against a piss poor Windies side. Take that out and he averages 37, and against the Saffers (where he was dropped) he took 8 wickets at 46.

Mark Davies – don’t know a lot about this guy. Is he the one that took 19 wickets in the county championship last season? Doesn’t sound a great return.

Durham were head and shoulders above everyone else last season, but I don’t see any of their players being a shoe in for England. The majority of their runs are scored by foreigners, and the stats above show that their bowlers (while being top notch county players) have not impressed when they played for England.

 

[Scaly piscine]

What does their record years ago have to do with anything? Plunkett and Blackwell are massively improved since they last played international cricket. Durham did not become as strong as they are by letting players sit on their arse.

Onions would have his Test wickets at mid 20s apiece if he'd had even the slightest bit of luck against South Africa and been given priority over 35 average bowlers with the ball. I would hardly say he's had an easy run of opposition in his Test career to date.

I suggest you go and look at Mark Davies record over the past 5-6 seasons. I seem to remember he averages under 20 during that period and has taken wickets for fun for the best county seam attack by a distance. In a full season he could probably take 100 if he was playing for a crap team.

 

[zaremba]

What does their record years ago have to do with anything?

It's the record they had when they had their chance at the highest level. They had their chance and they failed. Do you really think that's not relevant? Would you think that wasn't relevant if you were talking about players from a different county?

Now, I'm not one for writing players off for good, and I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these guys getting another go (although I'd have very mixed feelings about GBH coming back again) but your constant refrain that Durham players are hard done-by is just so, so thin.

Davies is the unluckiest of the lot IMO - I'd love to see him have a crack at Test cricket.

 

[Scaly piscine]

First two days highlights of the MCC game on Durham's website in case anyone wanted a look.

 

[TT Boy]

I presume Davies is once again injured? Yet he should be playing for England...

 

[S Chanderpaul]

I presume Davies is once again injured? Yet he should be playing for England...

Had an ankle operation just after playing with the Lions.

Should of been in the England squad though.....

 

[shivfan]

Seems the pink ball is good for the spinners. 18 wickets so far, 9 of them to the leggies and Di Venuto has said it’s very difficult for batsman to distinguish the seam. Could spell the end of tail-end resistance in the future which may be a good thing.

Don't judge the pink ball off this match only....

About four or five were played with the pink ball in the Caribbean domestic four-day competition a couple of months ago, again in day/night games. It would be interesting to take a look at those matches, and to see who took the wickets there, and how well the batsmen did.

 

[The_roc]

What does their record years ago have to do with anything?

I thought the gist of your complaint was that Durham players never got to play for England. I was just pointing out that in the case of Plunkett and Blackwell they had a chance, but were not good enough to take it.

I’m no big fan of the current England fast bowling attack. I don’t think we have had a good opening pair of bowlers since Gough and Caddick. If you said Plunkett and Onions were on a par with Broad and Anderson I might agree with you. To say they are head and shoulders above them is simply not borne out by the facts. They are all getting their county wickets at about 30 a piece. Only difference is that Anderson and Broad get about 45 county wickets a season whereas Plunkett and Onions get about 37. None of them can match Caddick who bowled on the flattest track in county cricket but still typically took 65 wickets a season at 26.

I guess Davies could be the unlucky one (getting his county wickets at 22 a time). But on average he’s played less than 10 games a season in the longer form of the game, and last season took 19 wickets at 30 a piece. 100 wickets in a season for any other team? your having a laugh.

 

[Manee]

Don't judge the pink ball off this match only....

About four or five were played with the pink ball in the Caribbean domestic four-day competition a couple of months ago, again in day/night games. It would be interesting to take a look at those matches, and to see who took the wickets there, and how well the batsmen did.

You do not have to look to see that the spinners would have got wickets in WI domestic cricket.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I thought the gist of your complaint was that Durham players never got to play for England. I was just pointing out that in the case of Plunkett and Blackwell they had a chance, but were not good enough to take it.

I’m no big fan of the current England fast bowling attack. I don’t think we have had a good opening pair of bowlers since Gough and Caddick. If you said Plunkett and Onions were on a par with Broad and Anderson I might agree with you. To say they are head and shoulders above them is simply not borne out by the facts. They are all getting their county wickets at about 30 a piece.

And there's where I stopped reading. Yea of course what Onions did over 5 years ago is key to whether he's a better bowler than those two here and now... Doesn't matter that he outperforms them both practically every Test, it's that career FC average that trumps all.

 

[wpdavid]

And tbf Plunkett's test performances 4 years ago when he had barely started shaving aren't terribly relevant. If he keeps performing in the CC like he did last year then he'll deservedly get a call up. I don't really know who else there is if Anderson, Broad & Onions break down this year. I'm certainly not convinced by Finn at this stage. Perhaps Bresnan deserves to be ahead of him right now if Flower is to be believed, but that's about all.

 

[shivfan]

You do not have to look to see that the spinners would have got wickets in WI domestic cricket.

It may surprise you to note that in the final day/night game with pink balls, pacer Lionel Baker took 13 wickets in the match to take the Leewards to victory....

Tino Best also took a five-fer in one of the matches.

But overall, the batsmen performed better in the pink ball games than they did in the red ball games. There were four centurions in four matches, which is a better ratio than in the red ball games....

Spinners also took wickets - obviously - but it was good to see pacers getting some wickets for a change.

 

[superkingdave]

Lancs game against Durham UCCE has already been called off, serves them right for arranging a friendly up there at this time of year.

 

[Pothas]

To be fair at the other end country our game against Surrey was cancelled and no play today against Middlesex.

Should obviously all just start our season in Abu Dhabi with a pink ball.

 

[Pothas]

We have signed Rangana Herath for the start of the season, bit of a meh reaction really. Suppose it makes sens with no Mendis yet but would have liked Danny Briggs to get a run of games and maybe get a pace bowler in.

 

[superkingdave]

Hmm we got smashed today in a 35 over match against Northants, Luke Sutton and Mark Chilton spent most of the overs at the crease, which isn't what you are looking for in a limited overs game. Lancs reject Vishal Tripathi followed up his half century in the Uni match scoring 81*.

Jimmy is playing against Durham tomorrow