*Official* England v Zimbabwe

[Anil]

This is proving to be as big a mismatch as some team vs Bangladesh. Zimbabwe without Andy looks like a rudderless vessel which might sink at any moment. No quality batsmen except maybe Grant Flower, no penetrative bowlers(Streak might be penetrative if he gets adequate support, but...), very dismal situation indeed.

 

[PY]

I'm not too sure about Harmison at the moment, I wouldn't go as far as to say he's crap but from what I've seen he looks a bit short of the extra umph. T.M.S. got it right IMO when they said that Harmison needs to find a stock delivery. He doesn't appear to have one from what I've seen (granted it isn't much) and they also said he gets quite a lot of his wickets from caught on the boundary which isn't really that clever a way to get wickets. Needs a stock ball like Caddick bowls short of a length just outside off stump.

On the positive side, he has a bit of pace on him and he has markably improved from previous series so if he continues improving, who knows how he'll turn out. Hopefully good because he could make up fourth member of our pace attack with Anderson, Hoggard, Caddick/Gough (depending on who's fit)......

 

[Neil Pickup]

I don't expect Caddick or Gough to get back to the Test XI.

For South Africa

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussain
Flintoff
Stewart
Giles

Is a pretty safe bet if they're all fit

Then you have Anderson as a certainty, Harmison is contracted and is improving a hell of a lot, agreed that he needs to find a stock delivery, but if Botham's praising him?

Then it's Hoggard vs Johnson (although Giles could step down on a pitch that isn't turning).

I wonder if Johnson can repeat this against a team that can bat...

Zimbabwe IMO don't deserve to be in Test Cricket whilst Mugabe is screwing the country down the drain. The team is obviously unsettled, imbalanced and disjointed.

 

[marc71178]

Interesting how you've omitted McGrath there Neil.

I cannot really how England would drop Giles for what would amount to a 5th seamer though, aside from the fact he's now beginning to look a comfortable number 8, his bowling is still improving, and a specialist spinner is always going to be better than not having one!

 

[Bazza]

But the problem is he is rarely required to bowl and when he does (in England at least), he rarely contributes much except the over rate and resting the frontline seamers. I know he provides variety, but I would be tempted to gamble on this:

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Stewart
McGrath
Flintoff
Johnson
Caddick
Anderson

I'm assuming Gough doesn't get back in and omitting Harmison because I still don't rate him. Johnson certainly deserves a chance and for me has shown in one game what a quality bowler can do, whereas Harmison has shown in 7 games what a less than quality bowler can do!

Unfortunately this attack does look very one dimensional now so I guess Giles could come in for a) Caddick because we don't nee him any more, b) McGrath who'll have to wait for another chance, c) Flintoff because he's injured or d) Johnson because he'll have to wait for another chance, though three frontline seamers would also be risky.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Interesting how you've omitted McGrath there Neil.

I cannot really how England would drop Giles for what would amount to a 5th seamer though, aside from the fact he's now beginning to look a comfortable number 8, his bowling is still improving, and a specialist spinner is always going to be better than not having one!

I don't think there's a case for McGrath to be selected over any of that top seven, though he would make the 13.

With Flintoff in the side, then it would be a very rare event that Giles was omitted for what is effectively a fifth seamer. Maybe Headingley...

 

[PY]

McGrath was always going to be used a replacement for Freddie and I believe Freddie is a better player, even accounting for what McGrath has done this series. I like the look of :

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Stewart
Flintoff
Giles
Johnson
Caddick/Hoggard
Anderson

for the SA series. As Hoggard is injured and I'm not sure how long for it would be Caddick/Harmison.

 

[luckyeddie]

Chances of Harmison missing out on the first test against South Africa (rightly or wrongly) are nil.

Sorry to bang on about it (and if you go back through the posts for the last year you will see that I've been just as much a Harmison knocker as anyone else) but his control in this game has been really impressive.

Those of you who have already condemned him as a donkey following the debacle of Australia - have you actually seen any of this game? He actually hit the stumps a couple of times (and the bouncer which cleaned up Price was a MONSTER - it had even Mikey drooling).

 

[marc71178]

I don't think there's a case for McGrath to be selected over any of that top seven, though he would make the 13.

And after his start, I can't see there's a case for dropping him.

It would grossly unfair on someone who has scored 150 in 2 innings at Test level!

 

[Rik]

And after his start, I can't see there's a case for dropping him.

It would grossly unfair on someone who has scored 150 in 2 innings at Test level!

Yeah well, life's a bitch.

It would be harsh to drop someone who takes 6-33 on his debut as well. But then, unless you perform against top level opposition then you will never know how good you are. If McGrath had scored 150 runs in 2 Innings against South Africa then fair enough.

 

[luckyeddie]

Yeah well, life's a bitch.

It would be harsh to drop someone who takes 6-33 on his debut as well. But then, unless you perform against top level opposition then you will never know how good you are. If McGrath had scored 150 runs in 2 Innings against South Africa then fair enough.

Certainly is - as you will find out when Harmison is named in the starting eleven against South Africa.

Regarding your second statement, would you advocate dropping Trescothick, Vaughan and Hussain? After all, they MUST be rubbish because none of them performed well against poor opposition.

 

[chris.hinton]

Well done England

But they have a Dilemia (SP) with Filntoff and Hoggard back also Rob Key not impressing

Team bs South Africa

Tresothick
Vuaghan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Stewart
McGrath
Flintoff
Hoggard
Harminson
Anderson

 

[Rik]

Certainly is - as you will find out when Harmison is named in the starting eleven against South Africa.

Regarding your second statement, would you advocate dropping Trescothick, Vaughan and Hussain? After all, they MUST be rubbish because none of them performed well against poor opposition.

Eddie, even you know that. I have never once said they are useless neither did the post you quoted even suggest such a thing.

Trescothick, Vaughan and Hussain have good records and have them based over many matches against many opponents. McGrath has an impressive record, against a very poor opponent. Who would you pick to play against the 2nd best team in the world?

I think we all know what is going to happen when England play South Africa...they have the batting to take apart any bowler without a plan. The only bowlers I've seen who have a plan are Hoggard, Anderson and Johnson.

 

[marc71178]

Your continual refusal to accept that Harmison (and McGrath) might actually have some talent is beginning to get boring.

We cannot allow the fact that McGrath has batted well in 2 consecutive Tests to cloud the fact that you don't like him, but similarly Johnson picks up wickets in one out of 2 innings, but he should be retained?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Your continual refusal to accept that Harmison (and McGrath) might actually have some talent is beginning to get boring.

Leave him alone Marc. He may actually be right. It's sort of like India being completely incapable of doing well at the 2003 WC :rolleyes: ....

 

[Langeveldt]

Hmm weird, I think Harmison is no good and needs to sort his action and mindset out majorly before playing any more test cricket...

However McGrath, however poor his FC average and the opposition may be, has grabbed his chance and looks the part completely... In a series where Vaughan, Trescothick and Hussain have failed to fire, he has done very well....

So as the americans say....Go Figure

 

[luckyeddie]

No offence, Rik (really, I was only jesting) and Lang, but we haven't been watching the same Steve Harmison, have we?

The guy who today put just 2 balls on leg or outside, produced the best bouncer I've seen by an England paceman for at least 6 years, who didn't bowl a single wide or no-ball in the game, who looked comfortable - even at 90+ mph, who got praise from not only Botham (who's easy to please) but Willis (who if he won the lottery would say "Damn. I've only got ONE jackpot").

That's a thing about first impressions - they stick. I guess the guy cannot win.

Ah, what the hell. Bring back jug-ears.

 

[Tim]

I don;t think many realise however, how poor Zimbabwe have been in this test series.
They've struggled to win against county teams so what do you expect them to be like against a good test side?

Realistically England need to wait until the South African test series where they will have a decent chance of judging the new players in their team.

 

[luckyeddie]

I don;t think many realise however, how poor Zimbabwe have been in this test series.
They've struggled to win against county teams so what do you expect them to be like against a good test side?

Realistically England need to wait until the South African test series where they will have a decent chance of judging the new players in their team.

Good point, Tim, well made as usual.

What's scraping my fingernails across the blackboard (skreeeeek) is the inference from certain quarters that the performances from this game can be ignored. They can't - just looked at in context of the opposition.

On top of that, although Zimbabwe are a very poor team, they do have a few pretty good players (and 1 outstanding one). If they continualy showed the character they showed yesterday, they wouldn't be the pushovers they currently are

 

[marc71178]

What's scraping my fingernails across the blackboard (skreeeeek) is the inference from certain quarters that the performances from this game can be ignored. They can't - just looked at in context of the opposition.

No Eddie, it's only certain performances that can be discounted, some of them are allowed to be looked at as if they were against much better sides.