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*Official* England in West Indies

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Depends how you define "competitive" i guess.
1st Test:
Limiting Australia sufficiently to a 4th innings target of 287. Then bowled out for 191 by Stuart Clark.

2nd Test:
266-5 and a draw chasing 372.

3rd Test:
387 all out chasing 475.

By any unbiased consideration, that's competitive.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
1st Test:
Limiting Australia sufficiently to a 4th innings target of 287. Then bowled out for 191 by Stuart Clark.

2nd Test:
266-5 and a draw chasing 372.

3rd Test:
387 all out chasing 475.

By any unbiased consideration, that's competitive.
not to mention a catalogue of poor umpiring decisions and a collapse in first test bowling and batting...
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
WI will win at least one test imo. Might put money on a drawn series. Can't believe people are predicting an easy England win, WI have the best and the third best batsmen in the series and neither side has a very good bowling attack.

Plus if WI order turners and play Dave and Jaggers they could win easily
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
WI will win at least one test imo. Might put money on a drawn series. Can't believe people are predicting an easy England win, WI have the best and the third best batsmen in the series and neither side has a very good bowling attack.

Plus if WI order turners and play Dave and Jaggers they could win easily
hope that last bit is scarcasm...

Swann and Panesar > Dave and Jaggers
England batsman playing spin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windies batsman playing spin

Having said that I might take a punt on Windies draw but odds are quite short for some reason, bookies obviously thinking the same thing as us.
 

Uppercut

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1st Test:
Limiting Australia sufficiently to a 4th innings target of 287. Then bowled out for 191 by Stuart Clark.

2nd Test:
266-5 and a draw chasing 372.

3rd Test:
387 all out chasing 475.

By any unbiased consideration, that's competitive.
Oh they were definitely competitive against Australia- i wouldn't ever say otherwise, that series was extremely promising for the Windies. But i mean regarding this series, whether i expect WI to be competitive depends on how you define that. Personally i can't see them winning the series. England are a much better side and four tests is a long time to overperform for. At best they'll scrape a 1-1 draw or 2-1 loss and put up a good fight like they did in SA not long ago.

I'm quite happy to stick my neck out here. I know I'm tempting fate but i really, really don't think the Windies can win this one.
 

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WI will win at least one test imo. Might put money on a drawn series. Can't believe people are predicting an easy England win, WI have the best and the third best batsmen in the series and neither side has a very good bowling attack.

Plus if WI order turners and play Dave and Jaggers they could win easily
Third best? Sarwan?

Incidentally, England have four bowlers with better records than every West Indian bowler.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
K... how about an avatar bet, lets say if Windies lose the series by more than 1 match (btw weather's pretty good about now) I lose. If Windies lose by 1 then a tie - no one changes nothing and if Windies draw the series or better I win. Up for it or are you too scared to let Curtley go?
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Third best? Sarwan?

Incidentally, England have four bowlers with better records than every West Indian bowler.
Would imagine he's referring to Gayle after recent NZ, not much swing in Windies so I would bank on Gayle having quite a good series, third batsmen might just be pushing it but he's there or there abouts despite average.
 

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K... how about an avatar bet, lets say if Windies lose the series by more than 1 match (btw weather's pretty good about now) I lose. If Windies lose by 1 then a tie - no one changes nothing and if Windies draw the series or better I win. Up for it or are you too scared to let Curtley go?
Yeah sure I'll take that. Two weeks.

Would imagine he's referring to Gayle after recent NZ, not much swing in Windies so I would bank on Gayle having quite a good series, third batsmen might just be pushing it but he's there or there abouts despite average.
Sarwan>Gayle IMO. It's hard to choose much between any of those batsmen after Chanderpaul (best batsman in the world) and KP (awesome). Strauss, Cook, Gayle, Sarwan, Collingwood, Bell-end- they're all 40-ish averaging players, and if you asked 5 different people to rank them you'd probably get five different orders. Personally I'd go:

Chanders
KP
Strauss
Sarwan
Gayle
Colly
Bell-end

England's bowling attack is miles better, and their batting lineup doesn't have the horrific gaping holes the Windies lineup does.
 

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Would imagine he's referring to Gayle after recent NZ, not much swing in Windies so I would bank on Gayle having quite a good series, third batsmen might just be pushing it but he's there or there abouts despite average.
Hmm when was the last time he scored a test century in the West Indies?

EDIT: that's a genuine question btw, not a cheeky remark.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Hmm when was the last time he scored a test century in the West Indies?

EDIT: that's a genuine question btw, not a cheeky remark.
was the 300 against Seth Efrica, they kept saying when it was in the NZ series but I forgot, at least 2 years ago, but atm I think he's found form and is a player England will have to be extremely weary of, especially if players like Anderson and Broad dont turn up. I reckon right now Gayle=Sarwan, Sarwan needs to find a bit of form and fluency, if he gets that then he'll be one of the best batsmen on show.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Think bowling attack is the place where Windies will get smashed, like I said Windies about 3 good players away from having a really solid side.
 

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was the 300 against Seth Efrica, they kept saying when it was in the NZ series but I forgot, at least 2 years ago, but atm I think he's found form and is a player England will have to be extremely weary of, especially if players like Anderson and Broad dont turn up. I reckon right now Gayle=Sarwan, Sarwan needs to find a bit of form and fluency, if he gets that then he'll be one of the best batsmen on show.
It was four years ago apparently. April 2005.

Current form notwithstanding, I'd have Sarwan over Gayle every time.
 

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Think bowling attack is the place where Windies will get smashed, like I said Windies about 3 good players away from having a really solid side.
Hmm.

Gayle
Someone useless
Sarwan
Nash (looks pretty good to me)
Chanderpaul
Bravo
Some useless wicket keeper
Jerome Taylor
Fidel Edwards
Some useless bowler
Some useless bowler

I wouldn't say "really solid", but i can see how they'd be a competitive outfit with four others. Not now though. Even Taylor and Edwards are only just sticking their nose out from under the blankets of uselessness, and Nash has barely played.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Hmm.

Gayle
Someone useless
Sarwan
Nash (looks pretty good to me)
Chanderpaul
Bravo
Some useless wicket keeper
Jerome Taylor
Fidel Edwards
Some useless bowler
Some useless bowler

I wouldn't say "really solid", but i can see how they'd be a competitive outfit with four others. Not now though. Even Taylor and Edwards are only just sticking their nose out from under the blankets of uselessness, and Nash has barely played.
Taylor and Edwards are very good bowlers while they both started their careers very poorly its hard to knock how well they've bowled since 2008 (Edwards 31 @ 29.35, Taylor 27 @ 32.92, Bravo 20 @ 36.60) unfortunately this is where things get dire for the West Indies. They have some very good players in Gayle, Sarwan, Nash, Chanderpaul, Bravo, Taylor and Edwards but after that there just seems to be gaping void in the talent pool. Marshall is okay I suppose.

Anyway if i were to rate the bowlers currently I'd say:
Sidebottom
Flintoff
Edwards
Anderson
Taylor
Bravo

Broad
Harmison
-daylight-
Powell
 

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Taylor and Edwards are very good bowlers while they both started their careers very poorly its hard to knock how well they've bowled since 2008 (Edwards 31 @ 29.35, Taylor 27 @ 32.92, Bravo 20 @ 36.60) unfortunately this is where things get dire for the West Indies. They have some very good players in Gayle, Sarwan, Nash, Chanderpaul, Bravo, Taylor and Edwards but after that there just seems to be gaping void in the talent pool. Marshall is okay I suppose.

Anyway if i were to rate the bowlers currently I'd say:
Sidebottom
Flintoff
Edwards
Anderson
Taylor
Bravo

Broad
Harmison
-daylight-
Powell
Harmison's definitely better than Broad and Bravo. I'm not a Harmison fan but he's definitely better than those two. Taylor's better than Edwards too IMO. Ranking the fast bowlers I'd go:

Flintoff
Sidebottom
Anderson
Taylor
Edwards

Harmison
Bravo
Broad
Panesar's arm-ball
Swann's quicker one
Don Bradman, despite being dead
Powell

Edwards and Taylor's records since 2008 are solid but they're not up to carrying the team, which is kinda what has to happen. Bravo's fitness situation isn't looking the best, so you really are down to the bare bones after those two.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Harmison's definitely better than Broad and Bravo. I'm not a Harmison fan but he's definitely better than those two. Taylor's better than Edwards too IMO. Ranking the fast bowlers I'd go:

Flintoff
Sidebottom
Anderson
Taylor
Edwards

Harmison
Bravo
Broad
Panesar's arm-ball
Swann's quicker one
Don Bradman, despite being dead
Powell

Edwards and Taylor's records since 2008 are solid but they're not up to carrying the team, which is kinda what has to happen. Bravo's fitness situation isn't looking the best, so you really are down to the bare bones after those two.
Na Edwards has gotten pretty quick and surprisingly accurate and I rate him a little above Taylor in the longer form of the game. Also would be partial to rating them both above Anderson.

Harmison has been very very dire lately.
 

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Na Edwards has gotten pretty quick and surprisingly accurate and I rate him a little above Taylor in the longer form of the game. Also would be partial to rating them both above Anderson.

Harmison has been very very dire lately.
Anderson's a tricky one because if the ball swings at any stage the WI are gone.

Harmy only played three tests in 2008, all with several months between them. For a bowler notorious for needing rhythm to be successful, i don't think it's fair to say he's been very very dire based on two of those matches (because he was really good against SA).

WI is somewhere he's travelled well before though, and a four-test series with two warm-ups gives him time to adjust. I'm not saying he's a quality bowler- as i said, i'm not a fan- but Broad and Bravo? Really?
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Personally i can't see them winning the series.
I don't expect them to win the series. But the initial suggestion was that without Fliintoff and Pietersen, West Indies could be competitive. I believe West Indies can be competitive against England's strongest lineup. Whether they will be or not is another story.
Anderson's a tricky one because if the ball swings at any stage the WI are gone.
Thankfully it's unlikely to swing enough and for long enough for Anderson to do that kind of damage.
 

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I don't expect them to win the series. But the initial suggestion was that without Fliintoff and Pietersen, West Indies could be competitive. I believe West Indies can be competitive against England's strongest lineup. Whether they will be or not is another story.

Thankfully it's unlikely to swing enough and for long enough for Anderson to do that kind of damage.
There was one test last summer- the second vs. Sri Lanka i believe- where the ball swung round corners for about 10 of the 15 sessions. The other time i remember it looping wildly in the Caribbean was St Paddy's day 2007, otherwise known as the Greatest Day in the History of Cricket.

Anyway, obviously it's not a regular occurance, but over the course of four test matches there might be a session or so where Anderson gets the opportunity to go nuts. The point about him is that he can either be indescribably good or largely ineffective depending on conditions, which makes it a bit difficult to compare him with players like Taylor or Edwards.
 

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