*Official* England in South Africa

[TT Boy]

Yes, I'd agree with all of that, especially as I couldn't tell you the last time a finger-spinner did a thing in SA. Also, Prior hasn't shown me that he's a test number 6, although he's a perfectly good number 7. For me it's 6 batsmen followed by Prior and four quicks. Patel at 6 would be great, but he's barely made a score this summer, so it won't happen.

Paul Harris, last test played in the Republic.

3rd Test: South Africa v Australia at Cape Town, Mar 19-22, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

You could even play two spinners at Cape Town.

 

[TT Boy]

Carberry has no longevity, plays spin like a robot. Likes the cut, so he may have some success in South Africa but looking forward, you can't have a guy who plays with cement feet in the subcontinent. Also think Jimmy Adams at Hampshire is the better batsman.

 

[GIMH]

Won't get away with Broad at 7 in SA. Leave him as a very good number 8 and let him concentrate on his bowling.

Completely agree. He'll be able to bat at 7 in the future but let's see the great progress he's made with the ball continue.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, I'd agree with all of that, especially as I couldn't tell you the last time a finger-spinner did a thing in SA. Also, Prior hasn't shown me that he's a test number 6, although he's a perfectly good number 7. For me it's 6 batsmen followed by Prior and four quicks. Patel at 6 would be great, but he's barely made a score this summer, so it won't happen.

What on earth has happened with Patel this season? He must have had 3-4 years on the trott when he was excellent and now he can't even get a half century to his credit this season.

 

[Pothas]

Carberry has no longevity, plays spin like a robot. Likes the cut, so he may have some success in South Africa but looking forward, you can't have a guy who plays with cement feet in the subcontinent. Also think Jimmy Adams at Hampshire is the better batsman.

Nope, Adams has done really well to make himself a decent county batsman has got a rather ungainly technique but it works for him but Carberry is a class above him. Am not sure he would make it a test level but I think he is worth a shot.

 

[tooextracool]

Bopara at #3? For God's sake, why? I think if the Ashes has shown us nothing else it's that Ravinder isn't (yet) a test three's arsehole. I'd be far happier with Carberry or Fat Bob or maybe even one of them opening and pushing Cook back to three. He's scored test hundreds from there before.

Ideally, I'd have Bopara bat down the order at 5 or 6 but there isn't really a spot open there. If Bopara doesn't bat 3 then it would have to end up being Bell at 3 again and I'm not sure if that's the best option either.

Cook has been worked out far far more than Bopara was in the Ashes. Im sick and tired of his technique being exposed, he's gone 2 Ashes series with the exact same technical weaknesses and looked pathetic in both. Some time on the sidelines beckons for him.

On Bopara, I still think he has a big future with England and that he needs to be persisted with. He is clearly talented and its just a question of him finding himself at the test match level. I don't think his technique was worked out as such this series, he just was so shot that he didn't know whether to bat offensively or defensively and it got to a point in the series where he just didn't know what he was doing at the crease.

 

[tooextracool]

Carberry has no longevity, plays spin like a robot. Likes the cut, so he may have some success in South Africa but looking forward, you can't have a guy who plays with cement feet in the subcontinent. Also think Jimmy Adams at Hampshire is the better batsman.

Carberry did have a successful Lions tour to India didn't he?

 

[Pothas]

But can you really see him getting runs in South Africa? That is the first question that has to be asked and I think most people would say no. I really have no idea who should bat at three for England, I don't object to Bell being in the side, in fact at 5 or 6 I would welcome it but a poor series at 3 against South Africa might put an end to his test career. I guess Key could be given a go but I am far from convinced that he will ever be a success at international level.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Strauss
Cook/Carberry
Pietersen
Trott
Collingwood
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Onions
Sidebottom

 

[Pothas]

Strauss
Carberry
?
Pietersen
Trott
Bell (although cannot really object to Collingwood if I am willing to include Bell)
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Onions/ Sidebottom

Would like to see Rashid get into the side at some point but South Africa is unlikely to be the best place for him to make his debut.

 

[tooextracool]

But can you really see him getting runs in South Africa? That is the first question that has to be asked and I think most people would say no. I really have no idea who should bat at three for England, I don't object to Bell being in the side, in fact at 5 or 6 I would welcome it but a poor series at 3 against South Africa might put an end to his test career. I guess Key could be given a go but I am far from convinced that he will ever be a success at international level.

Is there anyone better?

Key has had a mediocre season, and the best one can expect from him at this point is a mediocre career given that his FC career has hardly kicked off. As you mentioned, Bell at 3 is ok if used sparingly but he really should be only batting at 5 or 6 if hes picked on a regular basis. Carberry could bat 3 but then that involves persisting with Cook and playing 3 openers in the side.

I don't know whether Bopara would succeed in South Africa, but hes younger and hes more likely than Key, Carberry etc to go on and become a good England test player.

 

[Pothas]

I think a top 3 with Cook in it is more likely to succeed than one with Bopara to be honest. In an ideal world I would drop him but I think he is likely to do a more solid job than Ravi. As for his future I think another failed series would have a very negative efffect on Bopara's future as an England player.

 

[wpdavid]

Paul Harris, last test played in the Republic.

3rd Test: South Africa v Australia at Cape Town, Mar 19-22, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

You could even play two spinners at Cape Town.

OK, forgot about that one. My problem is I don't trust any of our quicks' level of consistency enough to only pick 3 of them. But if Cape Town is as you suggest, it'd be daft not to play a spinner there.

 

[aussie]

As i've mentioned before, the bowling attack really should be 4-seamers in SA. Swann should only play if the surface really looks like its going to turn.

 

[marc71178]

But then again, you still think Clark ahead of Hauritz at the Oval was a good call.

 

[aussie]

Talking in hindsight is always good isn't it.

 

[marc71178]

Except it wasn't just hindsight - it was being said from day 1 that it was a poor call and you refused to accept it, even after Swann's first innings efforts.

 

[aussie]

What on Day one with England 308/7 suggested AUS where missing a spinner?. You making this sound as if Haurtiz played - Australia would have won the Ashes. AUS lost the game due to that poor 1st innings batting performance.

As Ponting & Neilsen said, both teams misread the pitch since ENG may have played Panesar as well.

 

[TT Boy]

Carberry did have a successful Lions tour to India didn't he?

Graeme Smith scores heavy in India/subcontinent but he can't play spin either. Seen Carberry on TV a lot this year and he looks awful against the stuff. At least Smith has a sweep and the ability to hit you into the stand, Carberry plays from the crease, doesn't use he feet and gets bogged down too easily. And this was against Mickey Mouse non-spinners.

 

[aussie]

Ye Carberry should be nowhere near the test side.