Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Zimbabwe would've found a way to lose by an innings despite it being literally impossible from that point.
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***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
So a year from the world cup. Not a bad year for England in odi cricket given where they were. Lost two series 3-2, Won two series (3-1, and 3-2).
Batting and bowling stats.
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Thought Roy and Hales would probably get till the end of SA series to prove one way or another. Looks like Hales will continue and Roy will probably fall by the wayside for the time being. Opportunity maybe for Vince, Malan, or maybe Ali (although his batting of late has been horrid - so not convinced even in his favoured position he would do well). Hales really started to look solid in the SA series. Possibly helped by spending the whole winter working on his test batting.
Rashid's bowling figures are the most alarming really. 24 wickets @ Avg 42 @ 6 econ. Is he improving? Will they improve? Well I'd say in all likelihood he won't make it as an international cricketer. But given the lack of variation in the rest of the attack and the lack of alternatives I think they will (and I would) continue with him for the time being. A problem with continueing with Ali and Rashid is that they are both average fielders. Maybe in England they only play Ali on occasion?
Willey (like Topley) has some impressive bowling figures. 19 wickets @ 28.36 @5.61econ. I can't help but feel that regardless of his current figures he's going to struggle in international cricket. How many guys of 6 foot bowling 80/81 mph are succesful in odi cricket? Think he really needs to show his ability with the bat (and move up the order) or add 3-5 mph to be a more credible option. Unfortunately for him the coaching staff don't seem to rate his batting so he's stuck at 10 at present - from where he hasn't shown a whole lot in his limited chances. I'd be more inclined to go with Topley over Willey for now. WIlley is the better bat and fielder but the batting is irrelevant if Willey is batting 10, and I think Topley is the better bowler- and has the much higher potential.
I'd get rid of Jordan and Willey of the bowlers. Wood will get more opportunities but I'd be looking at adding a bit of pace to the squad. Maybe one of Stone, J Overton, Ball or even Fisher. If you've got Stokes and Ali as 5th and 6th bowlers you can potentially have a look at a talented youngster and not have to bowl them 10 overs if it goes wrong.
my 14 for next summer. Hales, Ali, Vince, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Rashid, Woakes, Wood, Finn, Topley, J Overton/Ball/Stone/Fisher/ whoever.
Batting and bowling stats.
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Thought Roy and Hales would probably get till the end of SA series to prove one way or another. Looks like Hales will continue and Roy will probably fall by the wayside for the time being. Opportunity maybe for Vince, Malan, or maybe Ali (although his batting of late has been horrid - so not convinced even in his favoured position he would do well). Hales really started to look solid in the SA series. Possibly helped by spending the whole winter working on his test batting.
Rashid's bowling figures are the most alarming really. 24 wickets @ Avg 42 @ 6 econ. Is he improving? Will they improve? Well I'd say in all likelihood he won't make it as an international cricketer. But given the lack of variation in the rest of the attack and the lack of alternatives I think they will (and I would) continue with him for the time being. A problem with continueing with Ali and Rashid is that they are both average fielders. Maybe in England they only play Ali on occasion?
Willey (like Topley) has some impressive bowling figures. 19 wickets @ 28.36 @5.61econ. I can't help but feel that regardless of his current figures he's going to struggle in international cricket. How many guys of 6 foot bowling 80/81 mph are succesful in odi cricket? Think he really needs to show his ability with the bat (and move up the order) or add 3-5 mph to be a more credible option. Unfortunately for him the coaching staff don't seem to rate his batting so he's stuck at 10 at present - from where he hasn't shown a whole lot in his limited chances. I'd be more inclined to go with Topley over Willey for now. WIlley is the better bat and fielder but the batting is irrelevant if Willey is batting 10, and I think Topley is the better bowler- and has the much higher potential.
I'd get rid of Jordan and Willey of the bowlers. Wood will get more opportunities but I'd be looking at adding a bit of pace to the squad. Maybe one of Stone, J Overton, Ball or even Fisher. If you've got Stokes and Ali as 5th and 6th bowlers you can potentially have a look at a talented youngster and not have to bowl them 10 overs if it goes wrong.
my 14 for next summer. Hales, Ali, Vince, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Rashid, Woakes, Wood, Finn, Topley, J Overton/Ball/Stone/Fisher/ whoever.
FBU
International Debutant
Are the bowlers improving from 3 years ago? It doesn't look like Woakes is.
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Stokes, Ali, TCurran, Finn, Topley
Curran with the Lions 9 wickets at 22.88 econ 4.94
Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Stokes, Ali, TCurran, Finn, Topley
Curran with the Lions 9 wickets at 22.88 econ 4.94
Shady Slim
International Coach
is philander a regular t20 player for the saffers or are you not missing out on anything for the world t20 since he is injured
He has not been a regular in either the t20 or odi teams, more of a squad player.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
James Taylor only playing 10 ODIs is a joke when you look at his numbers.
Stokes is the big conundrum, in theory he should add loads but his batting has been absolute piss.
Roy can get to ****. SR is nowhere near high enough to be getting away with averaging 29 opening the batting.
Groundking
International Debutant
Move Root up to open and Taylor @no.3? As I can't see how you get Taylor in the side without Root opening.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
If root opens I'd prefer Taylor at 4. They're England's best two middle overs batsman. If they're at 1 and 3 you run the risk of them being knocked over with the new ball. They are great foils to the bigger hitters because of their rotation of the strike especially against spin.
Of course that leaves a spot open at 3 with no obvious candidate. I'm probably in a minority but I'd like to see Stokes given a chance there.
Whatever they do I don't think they can have both Stokes and Moeen coming in at 5-7. They're going to collapse too often like that because they aren't equipped for the position.
Of course that leaves a spot open at 3 with no obvious candidate. I'm probably in a minority but I'd like to see Stokes given a chance there.
Whatever they do I don't think they can have both Stokes and Moeen coming in at 5-7. They're going to collapse too often like that because they aren't equipped for the position.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Even in May I think odi wickets are flat. And wouldn't say he was any less equipped than Taylor to play quality fast bowling at the start of an innings. I just think he plays best when he doesn't have to think about it much and can structure the innings like he plays test cricket.
I think the next 3 years will be a struggle trying to find a balance to the batting because of Moeen and Stokes. It's gonna be like fitting Gerrard and Lampard into the same England football team.
England will want them in the team (and you'd think they definitely will need one of them as the allrounder) but it will be a struggle finding them a batting position that a) suits them and b) doesn't come at the detriment of other better batsmen.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
They don't seem important figures in the batting, because you've got Root, Hales, Morgan and Buttler all loads better but you only need to look at the last series and see England collapsing with Stokes at 5 and Moeen 7 to know it will be an issue. I can't for instance see Moeen and Stokes coming together at 5 down with 100 to win in 18 overs in a WC QF and getting England over the line.
You can have one iffy guy at 5-7 but I think if they're both going to bat in the top 7 then either Ali will have to open, or Stokes bat 3 or 4. That or just don't play one of them.
Moeen to open would be the simplest option right now (although debeatable whether he was up to it) - and sacrifice Stokes at 7.
You can have one iffy guy at 5-7 but I think if they're both going to bat in the top 7 then either Ali will have to open, or Stokes bat 3 or 4. That or just don't play one of them.
Moeen to open would be the simplest option right now (although debeatable whether he was up to it) - and sacrifice Stokes at 7.
Zinzan
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I wondered about that after the NZ series last year that they may come unstuck if the wickets aren't perfect for fast scoring. Still not a bad attribute for England that when they click they can be a 400+ batting side.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Great comeback by South Africa to clinch the ODI series. To win from 0-2 down is never easy and South Africa have now done it twice. And top it off, they won 3 must win games chasing. De Kock's emergence once again the key here. You need at least 2, preferably 3 players in the top 4 you can rely on for a hundred when chasing. Previously SA only had AB. De Kock has the potential to be that player. If South Africa chase as well as they have done in this series consistently over the next few seasons, they are second only to Australia, on par with India.
Get Ravi back in the team...? His bowling gives more variety, he's not expensive at all and whilst people will say he didn't get us over the line enough times he knows how to bat at 7 with the tail and will get us a lot closer than moeen or stokes would down the order. He's a clever cricketer.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
ODI cricket no. Plenty of opportunities, 3 world cups and hadn't cut it. Bowling milked too easily- not a serious option in the format.
T20 a different issue, especially in Asia. His bowling becomes a decent option because he mixes it up a load against bats who have to come at him. Also if he bats at 6 or 7 he doesn't really have time to think (which seems to be his problem in other formats) and has a good record for England there.
I can see why they got rid of him and continue to leave him out - although I would say he was a little unlucky to be discarded in T20 cricket and on merit he should be in England's world t20 squad.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
On merit he would be nowhere near the international side because he was a liability in T20. He scores too slowly at the top and chokes when he bats lower down. His field also goes to pot when it matters. So we're picking him for what, his dibbly dobbers? No thanks.