***Official*** England in Pakistan

[BoyBrumby]

Fairly simple solution - 6 day tests, 75 overs per day. I'm not holding my breath for this common sense approach to materialise though...

Seems obvious, doesn't it? Especially when the (titter) Super Test was deemed "official" by the ICC & was scheduled to last, oh, 6 days, was it?

As for the play today, worst use of the sweep shot since Gatt in '87. GoJo wins the award for daftest dismissal of the day, but he faced some pretty stiff competition. Only really Tres can consider himself unlucky. Colly is exceptionally fortunate to still be there too; an obvious under-edge for mine. Ahktar took the decision rather well, so kudos to him. Kaneria's appealing got progressively more tiresome as the day went on tho. I have no problem with any bowler asking a question of the ump, but surely to God there's more decorous ways of doing it?!

He said in an interview on Sky we're looking at 350 & maybe 400 if things go really well. Personally I reckon anything in excess of 300 & we've done ok. Well, not "ok" per se, but ok from 248-6.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Talk about waste ? look in the mirror !

Less personal insults please.

 

[greg]

Seems obvious, doesn't it? Especially when the (titter) Super Test was deemed "official" by the ICC & was scheduled to last, oh, 6 days, was it?

As for the play today, worst use of the sweep shot since Gatt in '87. GoJo wins the award for daftest dismissal of the day, but he faced some pretty stiff competition. Only really Tres can consider himself unlucky. Colly is exceptionally fortunate to still be there too; an obvious under-edge for mine. Ahktar took the decision rather well, so kudos to him. Kaneria's appealing got progressively more tiresome as the day went on tho. I have no problem with any bowler asking a question of the ump, but surely to God there's more decorous ways of doing it?!

.

Thing is it's very difficult to blame the players really. Fletcher has a bit of an attachment to the sweep shot as the way to play spinners, and the players are all STRONGLY encouraged to play it - almost pre-meditate it - to a wide variety of lengths and on any line. It's a trade off - you are very rarely going to get bogged down playing the sweep shot; it will always bring runs, but it will get them out a lot (especially as mentioned when little adjustment is made according to the line of the ball).

Really there should be no need for a player like Vaughan (who plays spin beautifully) to take such an approach - whether that is true for some of the lesser batsmen is another matter.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Kaneria's appealing got progressively more tiresome as the day went on tho. I have no problem with any bowler asking a question of the ump, but surely to God there's more decorous ways of doing it?!

Had to love his 3 appeals in 1 when appealing a bat-pad catch against Collingwood that had clearly missed the bat. Its only going to hurt him when there is a real nick because the umpire is going to take little notice of the appeal.

 

[aussie]

well when i left for school this morning England were 100 without loss, now 248/6 is a definate collapse & have squadered a great oppurtunity of posting a huge 1st innings score. Now England have to hope everything goes their way for the remaining 4 days if they are to win this test & level this series.

 

[social]

Not too much bias in the cricinfo write up then.

"But once Vaughan picked out square-leg England fell apart to a mixture of poor shots and poor luck."

"He had moments of fortune - especially an inside edge against Shoaib on 54 that Darrell Hair missed - but it was the break he needed."


Where exactly was the poor luck?

Exactly.

Eng definitely had the rub of the green all day and still finished in an average position.

They are very fortunate still to be in a competitive position, IMO.

A guy like Shoaib will definitely bowl worse than he did today and take a bag of wickets on another occasion.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well I still reckon Tres was unlucky. No doubt he was out &, yes, it was a false stroke, but 9 times out of 10 the ball would've hit the ground not his boot.

 

[wpdavid]

He said in an interview on Sky we're looking at 350 & maybe 400 if things go really well. Personally I reckon anything in excess of 300 & we've done ok. Well, not "ok" per se, but ok from 248-6.

Strewth, he's optimistic if he thinks we'll get anywhere near 350, let alone 400. You have to fancy Shoaib & Naved to blow away our bowlers with the new ball, especially if there's a bit in the wicket first thing. As you say, I'd be absolutely delighted if our last 4 wickets took us to 300 from where we are now. Trouble is, by the time we're bowling presumably all the dampness will have gone, so it's going to be tough for our guys. I know I've said it before, but we need such a big performance with the new ball. Given the lack of experience in the Pakistani line-up you could see them collapsing quite nicely if the big guns go cheaply. But we can't afford to have them 80 for 1, or somesuch.

 

[Top_Cat]

A guy like Shoaib will definitely bowl worse than he did today and take a bag of wickets on another occasion.

Yep it was great to see him maintain the standard he has set for the whole series. He's been brilliant.

Don't forget Rana, though; his early overs were something special. Especially one ball which tailed in at Trescothick and then ripped away. He had no chance. I lost count of how many times he beat Vaughan outside off-stump too.

 

[Mecnun]

It shouldnt be all doom and gloom for England as in first test I think Pak also made a mediorce total in the first innings and went on to win it. Alot depends on Collingwood and tomorrow will reveal how costly the decision on Collingwood would be to Pakistan.

 

[social]

Yep it was great to see him maintain the standard he has set for the whole series. He's been brilliant.

Don't forget Rana, though; his early overs were something special. Especially one ball which tailed in at Trescothick and then ripped away. He had no chance. I lost count of how many times he beat Vaughan outside off-stump too.

I like Rana as a bowler.

Bowled well in Aus, India and now here.

Surprised to see he's averaging over 50 with the ball in tests. He's a much better bowler than that and should improve his record significantly if he keeps it up.

 

[magsi23]

Am I saying anything ridiculous or unreasonable? Not at all. If you could see anything objectively, you'd know it to be true. England have used dirty tactics throughout this series and countless others. Feel free to put me on your ignore list though - I could easily do without your snide remarks.

For whats its worth i love ur comments

 

[Top_Cat]

I like Rana as a bowler.

Bowled well in Aus, India and now here.

Surprised to see he's averaging over 50 with the ball in tests. He's a much better bowler than that and should improve his record significantly if he keeps it up.

Indeed. I've been a big fan for a while now. Whole-hearted performer and certainly, if he continues bowling like he has been, that record will improve post-haste.

I was also really happy to see Collingwood get in the runs. He can really get the tough runs and England would have been in a far worse position without him in this Test.

Incidentally, are were and Aussie comedian Carl Barron separated at birth?

 

[magsi23]

Look at the bit I bolded. The article itself did not go on about "how disgustingly biased the Umpiring has been this series" - which is the sort of crap that keeps coming up on these forums.

Do you know if u ever have poll who should be banned on this forum? i think u will top mate, leave everyone alone because everyone has right of opinion as u do as well.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Do you know if u ever have poll who should be banned on this forum? i think u will top mate, leave everyone alone because everyone has right of opinion as u do as well.

I couldn't give a toss if I did come top. Look at The Sun newspaper - complete drivel, sells millions. People are idiots and being voted for or against by a group of such people is meaningless - smart people wouldn't bother with such a poll. Allied to these facts there's also the point that you 'love' these comments: "England have used dirty tactics throughout this series and countless others" there's not really much hope for you.

 

[Dasa]

Thing is it's very difficult to blame the players really. Fletcher has a bit of an attachment to the sweep shot as the way to play spinners, and the players are all STRONGLY encouraged to play it - almost pre-meditate it - to a wide variety of lengths and on any line. It's a trade off - you are very rarely going to get bogged down playing the sweep shot; it will always bring runs, but it will get them out a lot (especially as mentioned when little adjustment is made according to the line of the ball).

Really there should be no need for a player like Vaughan (who plays spin beautifully) to take such an approach - whether that is true for some of the lesser batsmen is another matter.

They're only playing the sweep shot because they have very little idea how to play spin-bowling...I don't understand why they don't use their feet more. The only time I see English batsmen (bar Pietersen and Trescothick) use their feet against spinners is to hit boundaries, when they could easily come down and get easy singles, without ever needing to sweep.

Regarding the umpiring, Hair has been terrible once again. I cannot fathom how he missed the Collingwood edge! It was absolutely obvious...it just reinforces my view that Hair is one of the poorer umpires around.

 

[Top_Cat]

They're only playing the sweep shot because they have very little idea how to play spin-bowling...I don't understand why they don't use their feet more. The only time I see English batsmen (bar Pietersen and Trescothick) use their feet against spinners is to hit boundaries, when they could easily come down and get easy singles, without ever needing to sweep.

Yep, exactly. Players who aren't very good players of spin, regard using the feet as an attacking option only whereas guys who play spin well and use their feet, use their feet to just get to the ball and play it as normal.

 

[sqwerty]

Yep, exactly. Players who aren't very good players of spin, regard using the feet as an attacking option only whereas guys who play spin well and use their feet, use their feet to just get to the ball and play it as normal.

Wasn't just the sweeping that was a problem,

All 6 English wickets fell with batsmen trying to score square of the wicket on the on side.

Play straight boys !

 

[sqwerty]

good point that

 

[sqwerty]

sorry, just wanted to be 5000