**Official** England in New Zealand 28 Nov-18 Dec 2024 - 3 Tests

[BazBall21]

Opening for NZ seems a bit cursed in general. Might be why their fans seem to regard good openers very highly

 

[King Kane]

He shouldn't, because Young's record opening over the last couple of years is even worse than Conway's.

He is in better form though, albeit on Indian pitches, but Conway's form is bad on all pitches so we wouldn't be losing much to give Young a go now.

 

[Bahnz]

Opening for NZ seems a bit cursed in general. Might be why their fans seem to regard good openers very highly

We've had 2 genuinely good ones in the last 50 years, so fair to say blokes like Latham who are good enough tend to get a lot more leeway from both the selectors and the fans than they would in most other countries.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah well...I just don't think we're that good anymore. KW obviously still stingy with his wicket, but when you look at the current guys compared to the team when they won the WTC - Taylor, Watling, even Nicholls for all his flaws, they all knew how to put a price on their wicket and offer the opposition nothing. They current bunch just don't seem nearly as mentally strong, and just look way more prone to making unforced errors. It's really not a surprise when we make underpar totals on good decks. Even SA D managed to roll us for 200 last summer.

I think that's just where world cricket is going in general unfortunately. England's management isn't without its flaws and the batting can be excessively rigid but their style is an adaptation rather than a selective innovation. NZ have built their good times on error minimalistaion. This is probably the sloppiest performance I've seen from them in a very long time.

 

[Bahnz]

He is in better form though, albeit on Indian pitches, but Conway's form is bad on all pitches so we wouldn't be losing much to give Young a go now.

Conway did pretty well with the bat in India as well though. NZ's third highest run scorer in India.

 

[BazBall21]

We've had 2 genuinely good ones in the last 50 years, so fair to say blokes like Latham who are good enough tend to get a lot more leeway from both the selectors and the fans than they would in most other countries.

We have a no3 curse. Gower did well there.

 

[BazBall21]

Shitload of extras from England in this Test. Will be a talking point if NZ win.

 

[straw man]

Conway scored 76 and 91 vs India last series, he may not be operating at the ultra high level he did initially but it would be crazy to replace him (with who?) right now imo. Latham often frustrates but same for him - I would take an enormous amount of convincing to replace either before their 35th birthday unless they average like 15 for a year. We all remember the parade of terrible openers over the last ten-twenty years.

Would also want a young domestic opener to be genuinely banging the door down. Seems Mariu is closest to doing that, I hope he continues. But I wouldn't say anyone is there already.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah well...I just don't think we're that good anymore. KW obviously still stingy with his wicket, but when you look at the current guys compared to the team when they won the WTC - Taylor, Watling, even Nicholls for all his flaws, they all knew how to put a price on their wicket and offer the opposition nothing. They current bunch just don't seem nearly as mentally strong, and just look way more prone to making unforced errors. It's really not a surprise when we make underpar totals on good decks. Even SA D managed to roll us for 200 last summer.

Can't really agree with this.

Ravindra looks to be at least in Taylor's class. Glenn Phillips is at least in Nicholl's class. O'Rourke looks quality. Henry is a much better bowler now than what he was at that time.

Player for player we're in the same realm. Just playing poorly.

 

[honestbharani]

How often in the history of test cricket would a batsman have been given 4 lives? Would be interesting to know what the record is.

Steve Smith had 6 in his 100 in Pune back in 2017.

 

[Bahnz]

Conway scored 76 and 91 vs India last series, he may not be operating at the ultra high level he did initially but it would be crazy to replace him (with who?) right now imo. Latham often frustrates but same for him - I would take an enormous amount of convincing to replace either before their 35th birthday unless they average like 15 for a year. We all remember the parade of terrible openers over the last ten-twenty years.

Would also want a young domestic opener to be genuinely banging the door down. Seems Mariu is closest to doing that, I hope he continues. But I wouldn't say anyone is there already.

Not for this series anyway. Was more just an observation that he looks like he's been worked out and - unable to rely on his previously successful method - is now finding ugly ways like that to get out. If he can't find a way through it in the next two tests, then next season with (hopefully) a new coach I think it might be time to try someone new.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Pretty sure England had more than 2 fielders behind square on the leg side to Williamson there. Could be fooled by the angles, but from my vantage point it looked like 3.

 

[King Kane]

Bashir on, hopefully Rachin doesn't throw his wicket away to him again, he's too good a player of spin to be getting out to him twice in one test.

 

[Bahnz]

Can't really agree with this.

Ravindra looks to be at least in Taylor's class. Glenn Phillips is at least in Nicholl's class. O'Rourke looks quality. Henry is a much better bowler now than what he was at that time.

Player for player we're in the same realm. Just playing poorly.

Speaking specifically about the batting. I reckon there's plenty of bowling talent there to take us forward, especially if KJ can get fit. And yeah, this test - even by NZ's declining standards - has been a freak poor performance in the field.

But batting - these guys have been consistently 'underperforming' for 2 years now. Yes Rachin and Phillips have talent, but I just don't think the unit as a whole has the capability to make the opposition pay that they used to.

 

[Bahnz]

Pretty sure England had more than 2 fielders behind square on the leg side to Williamson there. Could be fooled by the angles, but from my vantage point it looked like 3.

Probably was a trick of the light, because Kane would've spotted it and had a go if there genuinely had been.

 

[straw man]

Good one Kaneh

Now double it

 

[PlayerComparisons]

9k runs for KW!

 

[Burgey]

9k test runs at near enough to 55 for KW.

Comfortably NZ’s greatest player and an ATG in his own right.

 

[King Kane]

A great achievement for Williamson to score 9000 runs but he needs to score at least another 100 runs to keep us in this test match.

 

[hendrix]

Speaking specifically about the batting. I reckon there's plenty of bowling talent there to take us forward, especially if KJ can get fit. And yeah, this test - even by NZ's declining standards - has been a freak poor performance in the field.

But batting - these guys have been consistently 'underperforming' for 2 years now. Yes Rachin and Phillips have talent, but I just don't think the unit as a whole has the capability to make the opposition pay that they used to.

Hmmm, fair to say that Latham and Conway are worse versions of themselves currently. But then, Ross Taylor was also pretty faded at that time, and I'd say Ravindra today is a better player than Taylor was then.

Mitchell and GP on par-ish with Nicholls/CdG. Current Blundell a big step down from Watling.

Still think it's somewhat in the same realm.