*Official* England in New Zealand 2019

[Mike5181]

He probably needs some attitude changes, but a few months ago he was pulling through for England bowling the super over in the World Cup final. Don't think it's panic stations quite yet, he's still a baby at international level experience-wise.

 

[Daemon]

He does seem to have a few body language/cbf issues, but he did bowl 42 overs in an innings first up. Have to have Ishant/Siddle levels of heart if you're still running in full tilt after that.

 

[DriveClub]

Despite the body language he's bowled a hell of a lot of overs this tour. He wouldn't have bowled that many if he whinges about it, probably got frustrated with not getting wickets.

 

[Mike5181]

He does seem to have a few body language/cbf issues, but he did bowl 42 overs in an innings first up. Have to have Ishant/Siddle levels of heart if you're still running in full tilt after that.

As long as it doesn't go into weird territory where people think they are mind readers or something. I don't even know what my dad's thinking most of the time.

 

[Starfighter]

He does seem to have a few body language/cbf issues, but he did bowl 42 overs in an innings first up. Have to have Ishant/Siddle levels of heart if you're still running in full tilt after that.

Despite the body language he's bowled a hell of a lot of overs this tour. He wouldn't have bowled that many if he whinges about it, probably got frustrated with not getting wickets.

IIRC when Langer floated the idea of wearing him down he boasted about the length of spells that he was bowling in the CC and that they couldn't do it. I wonder if he's changed his mind on bowling Tom Richardson spells?

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Think you guys are reading too much into a couple of light-hearted comments.

Not that much to ask for some sort of acknowledgment that NZ played pretty damn good cricket to comprehensively win another series, is it?

 

[hendrix]

Not that much to ask for some sort of acknowledgment that NZ played pretty damn good cricket to comprehensively win another series, is it?

I assume the comments came as part of questioning about his own lacklustre performance, so it's hard to ask him to focus on the opposition when asked about himself.

But in any case, who cares? NZ played good cricket whether or not he acknowledges it.

The Dobell stuff was more annoying because he's a cricket writer who doesn't seem to know about cricket.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I assume the comments came as part of questioning about his own lacklustre performance, so it's hard to ask him to focus on the opposition when asked about himself.

But in any case, who cares? NZ played good cricket whether or not he acknowledges it.

The Dobell stuff was more annoying because he's a cricket writer who doesn't seem to know about cricket.

It was in his newspaper column from my understanding.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Good body language is a thoroughly useless attritibute. Some of the greatest sportsmen I've ever seen have been accused of having poor body language or giving off the appearance that they don't care or look like pathetic whiny babies who complain about everything. Trying to correlate it with level of performance is silly.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, it's just real average when you sook about pitches, speed guns etc but can't acknowledge the other team played cricket better than you.

I can remember some real poxy touring teams down here but not one that should have been good, but was actually pretty shite and carried themselves as averagely as England. Maybe it's being harsh after the Ashes, World Cup etc and playing for no Test Championship points. But they were mud, and Archer was right at the forefront of it,

 

[Daemon]

Good body language is a thoroughly useless attritibute. Some of the greatest sportsmen I've ever seen have been accused of having poor body language or giving off the appearance that they don't care or look like pathetic whiny babies who complain about everything. Trying to correlate it with level of performance is silly.

Rubbish, in a team sport it can lift or deflate your side very easily. It's a real thing.

Of course it's just one of many factors that can affect performance so to say Archer's failure this series was just down to lack of trying or whatever would be lazy and in all probabliliy, incorrect.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rubbish, in a team sport it can lift or deflate your side very easily. It's a real thing.

I blame the other weaklings in the team more if they get affected by one bloke who looks a little down. It's nonsense.

 

[SteveNZ]

I blame the other weaklings in the team more if they get affected by one bloke who looks a little down. It's nonsense.

One of Ross Taylor's downfalls as a captain was his body language. He'd stand at slip and curse, tea pot and generally get really down in the dumps when his side wasn't going well or someone got hit for four. The bowlers hated it.

You can say what you're saying, but you're ignoring basic human nature. Being accepted is an evolutionary function of humanity - we wanted to stay in packs, because it ensured our safety. Same thing now. We want people to endorse our behaviours so we feel safe. If some bloke is kicking stones, wearing negativity all over them, it affects people. It's not nonsense. It's part of our DNA.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tbf I dont even have much of a problem with the "body language affects the team" argument even if i dont entirely agree with it. Its when people try to make a case that it affects a players own individual performance that it gets into dodgy territory for me. Archer looking like he cbf was a result of his not being able to get wickets, but people want to make it the cause.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah, agreed on that. I edited that point in previously but I think you had already quoted my post.

 

[SteveNZ]

It's a bit chicken and egg though, isn't it? Compare him to Neil Wagner. Neil Wagner doesn't sook when he doesn't get wickets. He might moan and kick a bit, but he still runs in. When Archer is on a flat one and isn't getting anywhere, he just goes horizontal. And whilst that doesn't NEED to affect those around him, it's not a real great look when your 150km man has seemingly stopped giving a ****. It's hard yourself to get your head back in the game too when your whole persona screams 'get me out of here'.

Having said that, Root criminally overbowls him. It's insane to use a fast bowler as a pack horse. Archer seems to bowl even more overs than Wagner does. Or a spinner does.

 

[Starfighter]

Having said that, Root criminally overbowls him. It's insane to use a fast bowler as a pack horse. Archer seems to bowl even more overs than Wagner does. Or a spinner does.

As I said above, Archer basically said in the Ashes that he wants to bowl that much and that Australia couldn't wear him down. It's a bit different bowling 30 overs in an innings to Div 2 county batsmen on a wicket with movement and a Dukes ball compared to a real road with a Kookaburra.

 

[SteveNZ]

That's great if he wants to bowl that much. Sometimes it doesn't look like it...but casting that aside, is bowling a 24-year-old - who plays all three formats at international level - that much a good thing? Especially for an out and out quick? Ignore injuries, because I'm not aware if he's had any and his action looks pretty stress-free (although history tells us there's really not often such thing for guys who bowl 150+). The better question is are you getting the best out of your key paceman when he's bowling a huge load of overs? Wouldn't it be better to work him in shorter, more aggressive spells? Using my previous pack horse line, it feels sometimes to me like he's a Melbourne Cup horse that Root wants to use to carry goods across the desert.

 

[Starfighter]

That's great if he wants to bowl that much. Sometimes it doesn't look like it...but casting that aside, is bowling a 24-year-old - who plays all three formats at international level - that much a good thing? Especially for an out and out quick? Ignore injuries, because I'm not aware if he's had any and his action looks pretty stress-free (although history tells us there's really not often such thing for guys who bowl 150+). The better question is are you getting the best out of your key paceman when he's bowling a huge load of overs? Wouldn't it be better to work him in shorter, more aggressive spells? Using my previous pack horse line, it feels sometimes to me like he's a Melbourne Cup horse that Root wants to use to carry goods across the desert.

Oh I wasn't saying it's a sensible thing. Most bowlers I can think of who put down such long spells finished their careers prematurely. He did have a side strain in the WC but got through with painkillers. How he's used is something that he and Root have to work out between themselves, preferably sooner rather than later. Doesn't help that Root is poor at handling his bowlers though.

 

[Flem274*]

anderson and woakes would be the workhorses in their squad surely. especially since anderson is super fit and at the end of his career so you may as well use every drop.