**Official** England in Namibia and Zimbabwe

[Richard]

You really have got a screw loose.

Yes, of course, Chapple, Cork, Keedy and the like really look like they can contain international-class batsmen, don't they?

 

[Richard]

If they took risks against him (which they could do quite happily if there were 5 of him getting nobody out) they'd take him for 6+ an over easy.

Yes, of course they would - because this one says they would.
Isn't it just a little bit of a coincidence that no-one ever tries taking any risks against him?
It really is incredible that there are the like who refuse to accept a bowler with a ODI economy-rate of under 4-an-over as a good bowler.
I thought everyone realised that, even if not the most important thing, averages aren't the be-all-and-end-all.

 

[Prince EWS]

D/L is good enough for the 'accuracy' I was using.

I disagree.

His bowling average is similarly awful in 3-5 day games and limited over domestic games.

Well, I definately dont think hes a 3-5 day player, unless he revives his batting (what ever happened to the Utseya that flogged Murali around the ground, then scored a hundred in a tour match, then got that brilliant 46 in the test?), but as for his one day domestic stats, you are sadly mistaken.

This season:

Name Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ Team
P Utseya 3 20 2 71 3 23.66 2-27 - - 40.0 3.55 MIDLANDS

Most of his List A stats are actually based on his ODI performances, and games that he played when he was just 16 years of age.

 

[Scaly piscine]

but as for his one day domestic stats, you are sadly mistaken.

Based on a hand-picked 20 overs?

 

[Prince EWS]

Hand picked? No, thats his stats this season.

Most of his other domestic games were played three years ago.

 

[marc71178]

But runs dont magically appear when wickets are left in hand. No matter how many wickets you have left, if the bowling is good, you wont be scoring many runs.

It's not just the Zimbabwe game that this has shown itself.

In a large number of England's recent games the same sort of thing has happened.

So is it all death bowling is rubbish then?

 

[marc71178]

No, you are missing my point.

If they took risks against him, he would get them out.

As shown by his mighty wicket taking record in all cricket.

 

[marc71178]

And we all know how great a system D/L is... :rolleyes:

It is a superb system that is by far the fairest one ever employed when rain effects a Cricket Match.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Hand picked? No, thats his stats this season.

Most of his other domestic games were played three years ago.

Overall he still averages over 30 in limited overs domestic cricket - much better than ODIs but still not very good considering the standard he'll be playing against.

Edit: averages over 40 as well when I get my maths right

 

[marc71178]

He bowled at th 40-45 over mar a few times,

He did?

When was this then?

 

[marc71178]

Rubbish, it's nothing to do with experience.
It's to do with ability - some bowlers simply are not good at controlling the new white ball. Allan Donald never bowled with the new white-ball if he could avoid it.

So you're now saying he hasn't got the ability?

Make your mind up.

 

[Prince EWS]

As shown by his mighty wicket taking record in all cricket.

His form this season in ODD cricket has been great, as shown earlier.

He also took a 5-wicket hall earlier in Logan Cup (FC comp).

 

[Prince EWS]

Overall he still averages over 30 in limited overs domestic cricket - much better than ODIs but still not very good considering the standard he'll be playing against.

Edit: averages over 40 as well when I get my maths right

Considering the fact that he played several games at the age of 16, it doesnt seemt oo bad.

Also, have you ever considered that batsmen in domestic cricket use the same tactics against him? He plays for Midlands, who arent a strong team by any stretch of the imagination, so batsmen may have decided to play Utseya out, and attack the other bowlers.

 

[marc71178]

His form this season in ODD cricket has been great, as shown earlier.

He also took a 5-wicket hall earlier in Logan Cup (FC comp).

Oh great(!)

Because having seen how great Zimbabwe's International side is, you've got to say that their domestic competition is the best in the world!

 

[Richard]

So you're now saying he hasn't got the ability?

Make your mind up.

No, I'm saying nothing of the sort, and no, you're not going to manufacture me saying what it would be most convenient for you had I said.
I'm saying that there are bowlers - some who got to be very experienced - who never had that ability.
And I am saying that, because of this, one single spell where a bowler - however experienced - bowled a few too many wides doesn't mean much.

 

[Richard]

So is it all death bowling is rubbish then?

Given that all the rest of Zimbabwe's bowlers are totally rubbish, yes, that would be a pretty logical thing to say!

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh great(!)

Because having seen how great Zimbabwe's International side is, you've got to say that their domestic competition is the best in the world!

But it disproves your point that he cant take wickets in any form of the game.

 

[marc71178]

Except, if you read my post, I said it had happened in England's recent games (as in not just Zimbabwe)

 

[Richard]

It is a superb system that is by far the fairest one ever employed when rain effects a Cricket Match.

Exactly - when rain affects it - it is a neccessary generalisation and far fairer than the ludicrous run-rate rules.
However, as we've seen so many times, in actual matches things pan out differently every time. It's not logical to use the thing when discussing actual happenings.

 

[marc71178]

But it disproves your point that he cant take wickets in any form of the game.

1 game does not disprove a career record of 27 wickets in 19 FC games and 12 in 27 OD games.