***Official England in India***

[Langeveldt]

Mahmoodwatch is now an official entity..

As he is in India already AFAIK, he is probably currently doing not very much.. Apparently R and R is the order of the day for England's cricketers and I expect him to be an integral part of this integral preparation for the next ODI in Guwahati.. An integral cog in the reasonably oiled machine so to speak..

 

[Richard]

**** Mahmood to play ODI cricket once more

I can only hope he gets such a fearful pounding that this time turns-out to be the last.

And to repeat what i said at the end of England's innings, i've never watched a KP innings before and ended up thinking he failed to score quickly enough.

I've not often seen people bowl that well to him late in an innings either. He's KP and he's good, but he's not superhuman. I don't think he played that innings the wrong way at all, apart from, as I say, not getting after Yuvraj Singh enough early on. India's bowlers (as well as most of the non-KP batting) are just way, way better than England's.

Mind, it shouldn't be forgotten that Flintoff smashed Harbhajan for an over almost as bad as Sehwag took Swann for in a Powerplay earlier in the series. God, I do hate to see quality spinners forced to bowl in Powerplays, it's such a fearful waste.

 

[Uppercut]

I can only hope he gets such a fearful pounding that this time turns-out to be the last.

I've not often seen people bowl that well to him late in an innings either. He's KP and he's good, but he's not superhuman. I don't think he played that innings the wrong way at all, apart from, as I say, not getting after Yuvraj Singh enough early on. India's bowlers (as well as most of the non-KP batting) are just way, way better than England's.

Mind, it shouldn't be forgotten that Flintoff smashed Harbhajan for an over almost as bad as Sehwag took Swann for in a Powerplay earlier in the series. God, I do hate to see quality spinners forced to bowl in Powerplays, it's such a fearful waste.

Well, Shah outpaced him quite considerably late in the innings. But yeah, failing to get after Yuvraj was his big failing.

Rather than England's bowling being the problem- although obviously India's is better- the crucial difference is the openers. On flat ODI pitches like this one, that are expected in the subcontinent, noone is better equipped to take advantage of the powerplays than Sehwag-Tendulkar-Gambhir. There's barely a worse top order conceivable than the England top three, whoever they've chosen to play/

 

[Richard]

Yeah, that's the thing. What annoys me about the "England don't take advantage of the Powerplays" stuff is that people always seem to be suggesting it's a problem with attitude. It's not. It's a problem with skill. England don't have batsmen of the calibre to survive the new-ball when it does a bit and score quickly when it doesn't. They haven't had such a thing since Trescothick and Knight. They might, possibly, have done with Mal Loye but he didn't get a chance until it was almost too late, and this meant that the fleeting chance he did get had to be taken instantly, and it wasn't, which was always perfectly possible, because many players don't take like a duck to water to international cricket.

As to Shah outpacing him, yeah he did - India bowled less well to Shah than Pietersen. Might seem a bit too convenient, but contrary to some thinking, people don't bowl the same every ball and it is perfectly conceivable that one player gets most of the crap from time to time.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, that's the thing. What annoys me about the "England don't take advantage of the Powerplays" stuff is that people always seem to be suggesting it's a problem with attitude. It's not. It's a problem with skill. England don't have batsmen of the calibre to survive the new-ball when it does a bit and score quickly when it doesn't. They haven't had such a thing since Trescothick and Knight. They might, possibly, have done with Mal Loye but he didn't get a chance until it was almost too late, and this meant that the fleeting chance he did get had to be taken instantly, and it wasn't, which was always perfectly possible, because many players don't take like a duck to water to international cricket.

As to Shah outpacing him, yeah he did - India bowled less well to Shah than Pietersen. Might seem a bit too convenient, but contrary to some thinking, people don't bowl the same every ball and it is perfectly conceivable that one player gets most of the crap from time to time.

Yeah, we just like having something to moan about. "Our players don't have the natural skill and ability of the Indians!" doesn't make for a good rant.

Still, i'm sure they could do better than Cook, Bell and Bopara.

 

[Richard]

It always seems that way... but who do you suggest?

The Priors and Wrights are patently substandard; other genuine specialist openers like Strauss and Key are every bit as longer-form-suited as Cook is... there just isn't so much as one player currently available for England and likely to still be available in 2011 who has any real notable ability where opening the batting in one-day cricket is concerned, at county level never mind international.

I wish I could suggest someone, but there is really no-one currently who I believe could do a particularly good job opening for England in ODIs.

 

[Uppercut]

It always seems that way... but who do you suggest?

The Priors and Wrights are patently substandard; other genuine specialist openers like Strauss and Key are every bit as longer-form-suited as Cook is... there just isn't so much as one player currently available for England and likely to still be available in 2011 who has any real notable ability where opening the batting in one-day cricket is concerned, at county level never mind international.

I wish I could suggest someone, but there is really no-one currently who I believe could do a particularly good job opening for England in ODIs.

I haven't seen enough county cricket to say, but the problem has a lot to do with the fact that aggressive openers tend to have their proverbial asses handed to them regularly if they're unfortunate enough to be English. The technique for maximising powerplay runs on flat subcontinental pitches is never tested in England, so players with the ability to be reasonable pinch-hitters in India might not even make it to county cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

Not sure if I buy that. Sehwag isn't an opener by trade. Neither was Ganguly. Or Sachin. Plus, English ODI pitches are hardly very bowler friendly.

 

[Uppercut]

Not sure if I buy that. Sehwag isn't an opener by trade. Neither was Ganguly. Or Sachin. Plus, English ODI pitches are hardly very bowler friendly.

Think much, much lower-level. The ball swings a considerable amount here, even in school cricket, cautious openers are preferable. I'm not sure how unique this is to the UK, but getting out playing an attacking shot is massively frowned upon. You'll probably be straight out of the team in fact. It's the G******y Boycott effect maybe. You don't get a county contract as a pinch-hitter in LO cricket.

But the case of Tendulkar and Ganguly does suggest that a good idea on flat ODI decks is to push the stroke-makers used to coming in in the middle order to the top. Probably true.

 

[silentstriker]

Frankly, Sachin and Ganguly were a much better opening ODI duo on all decks than pretty much any other opening duo, openers by trade or not. It doesn't matter if the pitch is seaming. You need that fast start in ODIs. People forget, Sehwag is a middle order batsman too, and really still speaks of one day ending up there.

 

[Uppercut]

Frankly, Sachin and Ganguly were a much better opening ODI duo on all decks than pretty much any other opening duo, openers by trade or not. It doesn't matter if the pitch is seaming. You need that fast start in ODIs. People forget, Sehwag is a middle order batsman too, and really still speaks of one day ending up there.

Sachin and Ganguly are special though, noone's expecting England to find an equivalent of those players. There'll never be another Sachin.

More to the point, a Cook and Bell inspired 4-per-over during the powerplays is acceptable when there's some new-ball movement. Not Sachin-Ganguly level, but acceptable. Not so on a flat-as-**** subcontinent pitch.

 

[Precambrian]

I haven't seen enough county cricket to say, but the problem has a lot to do with the fact that aggressive openers tend to have their proverbial asses handed to them regularly if they're unfortunate enough to be English. The technique for maximising powerplay runs on flat subcontinental pitches is never tested in England, so players with the ability to be reasonable pinch-hitters in India might not even make it to county cricket.

Who cares. IPL is in India and is that all matters to these 20-20 specialists.

 

[Anil]

It's possible that they'll exhaust every possible way to lose and thus start winning.

it's also possible they will find hitherto impossible ways to lose....never underestimate the creative mind...

 

[wpdavid]

According to cricinfo's headline, the tour has been called off after the bombings in Mumbai. The article's very brief - I think it's just now been announced. There is some talk of maybe saving the tests, but I can't see that happening if India is deemed unsafe now.

 

[Precambrian]

It's sure. I saw another site, link in seperate thread

 

[wpdavid]

It's sure. I saw another site, link in seperate thread

Yup, saw it after posting my contribution.

 

[chalky]

Just saw it confirmed on Sky

 

[Days of Grace]

Some might say that no tests at all might actually be better than another crap two-match series.

 

[Precambrian]

Some might say that no tests at all might actually be better than another crap two-match series.

Yeah, make it three and shift it to January FFS.

 

[sanga1337]

Who would say that? As lame as 2 test series are, 2 tests are better than no tests.