***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

[TT Boy]

What’s the chances of Shane Harwood getting a game? He looks like another Brett Dorey or Mick Lewis waiting to happen.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Harwood's definitely better than at least Mick IMO, but regardless I don't think there's much chance. If there's a third injury to a seamer he might get the callup, but I think they'd just play the three remaining fit ones and Hogg and White.

Tait's fit again as well and took 4 wickets today in the 20/20, so he'd come into consideration if they needed another seamer beyond Hilfenhaus.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I'll give you taller...

Whole match was (ironically given his lukewarm response to the fromat) very much like Ricky Ponting: short & desperately ugly.

 

[Prince EWS]

What’s the chances of Shane Harwood getting a game? He looks like another Brett Dorey or Mick Lewis waiting to happen.

He gets more pace and bounce than those two. But really, his chances aren't very good. The following are ahead of him:

McGrath
Lee
Bracken
Johnson
Clark
Hogg
Hilfenhaus
and maybe Tait

So I can't see him getting a game.

 

[TT Boy]

Harwood's definitely better than at least Mick IMO, but regardless I don't think there's much chance. If there's a third injury to a seamer he might get the callup, but I think they'd just play the three remaining fit ones and Hogg and White.

Tait's fit again as well and took 4 wickets today in the 20/20, so he'd come into consideration if they needed another seamer beyond Hilfenhaus.

Considering how many games there is and the more than realistic prospect that Aus will already be qualified after only a few of them, be good to see the likes of Tait get a game or two. Instead of players such as Harwood, Hopes et cetera, who have no realistically chance of representing Australia in the future, on a consistent basis.

 

[Matt52]

Can't agree with that. A fit Styris is one of the first players I would pick. Hard as nails and a good top-order bat who you can get 10 decent overs out. We missed him heaps against SL

Styris is overated. He is not good enough for the top 4. Maybe 5 but I would prefer him at 6 if he makes the side at all. He could be the end of innings specialist that Bracewell wants.

 

[Nishant]

What’s the chances of Shane Harwood getting a game? He looks like another Brett Dorey or Mick Lewis waiting to happen.

my opinion exactly! although...he can't be too bad...might as well give hima try, in preparation for the WC!

 

[Fiery]

Styris is overated. He is not good enough for the top 4. Maybe 5 but I would prefer him at 6 if he makes the side at all.

Styris is a shoe-in to make the side no matter where he bats. Reminder: 141 against SL at last World Cup, 101 in chasing down 330+ vs Aus last year. "If he makes the side at all"??..."overated" (sic)?? I think if anything, he's under-rated

 

[age_master]

Lee is out of the first couple of games apparently with a chest infection, could give Mitchell Johnson a start.

 

[AussieDominance]

Johnson is really getting loads of oppurtunity to cement his spot which is a great thing for Australian Cricket after the World Cup we have to look straight to Tait,Johnson and Hilfenhaus in our rotation to give them 4 years to really find their feet before the next World Cup.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'd have Franklin in the OD side ahead of Oram: he's a better bowler and is in better form with the bat at the moment.

On what evidence is Franklin a better bowler?
Is it his domestic record that is not only extremely average but clearly worse than Oram's? Or is it that his international record is exceedingly rubbish and exceedingly worse than Oram's? And neither Oram nor Franklin amount to much as OD batsmen. I'd hardly be picking them as allrounders.

I'd like to see both Fulton and Taylor given a decent go in AUS. Both have the potential to score a lot of runs on the wickets here.

I wouldn't have Styris in the team as anything other than an all-rounder. His batting is not good enough for a top five spot. That said, most of our top order fits into that category at present.

Here's the punchline though. Only Astle in the New Zealand lineup scored more runs over his last 17 ODI innings than Styris. Hilarious, I know, but let's also remember that Astle has only scored 22 more runs than Styris in that span, and Styris has scored a whopping 121 more runs than Fleming in the span. Insanity!

 

[Tim]

By the time Styris, Mills and Oram get there. I wouldn't mind seeing this side being picked:

McCullum
Astle
Taylor
Fleming
Styris
Fulton
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Gillespie
Bond

 

[_Ed_]

Styris is overated. He is not good enough for the top 4. Maybe 5 but I would prefer him at 6 if he makes the side at all. He could be the end of innings specialist that Bracewell wants.

I disagree - since 2003 his ODI average is just over 34. While I agree that's hardly world-beating, it looks pretty good compared to some of the others we've got.

He's got a great ability to pace a chase too, with the 330 chase against Australia Fiery mentioned and also a stunning century chasing 260 against Pakistan at Eden Park. I remember thinking throughout the innings "what's he thinking? He's going way too slowly!" but by the end of the innings his strike-rate was almost 100.

 

[Fiery]

I disagree - since 2003 his ODI average is just over 34. While I agree that's hardly world-beating, it looks pretty good compared to some of the others we've got.

He's got a great ability to pace a chase too, with the 330 chase against Australia Fiery mentioned and also a stunning century chasing 260 against Pakistan at Eden Park. I remember thinking throughout the innings "what's he thinking? He's going way too slowly!" but by the end of the innings his strike-rate was almost 100.

Agreed Ed. He is a very handy and versatile cricketer. Has a solid technique and can be either accumulator or hitter and is an economic mid-innings bowler

 

[Matt52]

I disagree - since 2003 his ODI average is just over 34. While I agree that's hardly world-beating, it looks pretty good compared to some of the others we've got.

He's got a great ability to pace a chase too, with the 330 chase against Australia Fiery mentioned and also a stunning century chasing 260 against Pakistan at Eden Park. I remember thinking throughout the innings "what's he thinking? He's going way too slowly!" but by the end of the innings his strike-rate was almost 100.

I definitely think he is overated. His average is pretty handy for an nz batsman so I think he should be in the side or close. But he is not good enough to bat in the top 4. Leave him down at 6. Ed says he is great at pacing a chase and he has experience, so that is the best role for him imo.

He did get a century against Aus but remember that wasnt McGrath, and Warne he was facing, it was Mick Lewis and other young guys they were trying out, Aus' version of Micheal Mason and Andre Adams. That was a pretty poor bowling attack, and all the NZ batsmen looked pretty good in that game.

I think you need to judge a player on how they perform against the best sides, and also for the coming series dont get your hopes up for Styris doing well. Ofcourse i hope he does, but history would suggest otherwise.

Batting average against Australia.

Fleming: 30
Astle: 30
Styris 16. ( if you take out the century against a poor attack it drops to 11)

Batting average IN Australia against Australia.

Fleming 38
Astle 40 (surprising how good Flem and astle's are here).
Styris 13

Batting average in Australia vs ANY TEAM ( mostly SA, because of that tri series)

Fleming 34
Astle 23 ( he struggled against SA)
Styris 12.

So thats why I think he is overated... its all well and good doing well against other teams that are not as good but when you come up against Aus, then you can find out how good these guys are. Fleming and Astle have held there own, but Styris has been found out a little I think.

No5 or 6 in the side, fine.... there is really no one else. I would rate Styris ahead of Fulton and Marshall etc but I dont think he is good enough to bat in the top four. He has had a cushy ride by being continually selected at 4 or 5 in his career never having to change the way he plays but he averages 29 overall, and how many other teams would have a guy averaged 29 in their top 4.? Not many, guys like him and Vincent and McMillan that have had a chance but have low averages should be fighting it out for that 5 or 6 position and there other skills, Styris' and Macca's bowling, and Vincent and Marshalls fielding can be weighed up as well.

By the way..... Styris' bowling average against Aus is 46, and his average in Aus conditions is 146.

 

[_Ed_]

He did get a century against Aus but remember that wasnt McGrath, and Warne he was facing, it was Mick Lewis and other young guys they were trying out, Aus' version of Micheal Mason and Andre Adams.

Difference is, one of them was Stuart Clark...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So thats why I think he is overated... its all well and good doing well against other teams that are not as good but when you come up against Aus, then you can find out how good these guys are.

Performance against Australia is not the litmus test of how good a player is. A player can be pretty darned good and never perform consistently against Australia. Only the excellent players have, after all. There's a reason why there are more than 2 teams in world cricket, and that's because New Zealand won't be playing Australia all year around, and if a player is getting the job done against the majority of oppositon (among the proper ODI nations), I don't see how his failures against Australia make him over-rated. It just means he shouldn't be rated very highly when facing Australia.

 

[Matt52]

Here are some more comparisons for you


Batting average vs Australia:

Brendon McCullum; 24
Jacob Oram: 23
Shane Bond 19
Styris: 16


Batting average vs Aus in Aus

McCullum: 15
Oram: 13 (he has only played two matches)
Styris: 13

Batting average vs Any team in Aus:

McCullum: 22
Oram 13( just two matches)
Styris 12.

BUT some good news.

Bowling avearge vs Australia

Bond 11.87

Bowling average vs Aus in Aus

Bond 10

Bowling average in Aus against any team

Bond 16

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Wake me up when Australia and New Zealand aren't the only teams in world cricket.

 

[Sw1fty]

Interesting.

"[England is] a side we hope have taken a dreadful towelling and will be blown apart in terms of morale by the time we arrive,"

So if England have taken a towelling, how would you describe being bowled out for 73 Braces?

http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/cbs/content/current/story/276067.html