*Official* Bangladesh Tour of New Zealand

[nzfan]

Chapman needs a long enough run to show what he can contribute. Phillips also needed good long run to get to this point. Chapman is definitely a quality player particularly against spin. The problem is he will likely play the next game and bat at no.5/no.6. He'll have to throw the bat around if we don't lose early wickets and his average won't reflect what he brings to the table. I still think he's not someone that can bat at 6 or 7 and have a blast. He's more of a serious batter that needs to be batting a bit higher but that's not going to happen given our batting line up.

He bowls sparingly as well so quite hard for him to cement his place.

 

[Immenso]

Phillips has got himself back into form with his Plunket Shield knocks.

Scored 82 runs without being dismissed in T20Is since playing the 2 rounds of plunket.

Finn Allen, since skipping the 2 rounds of plunket is averaging 8.5 in T20Is.

Facts.

 

[SteveNZ]

has chapman done anything of note for nz? everytime he shows up he does nothing it seems

Not yet, but I think there's a future for him. We're seeing guys like Daryl Mitchell, Conway, Will Young to an extent, contribute in their late 20s because they're brought into the environment at a time where they know their game, have mature heads on them and provide a consistency etc. I think that'll be Chapman at that age. He's probably not what we need him to be now, but he's showed domestically he's above that level and if he can develop that spin option as well, it makes him a great option in terms of balance to a side (and handy in subcontinent etc).

I think ODIs will be where he thrives, I think he'll be a very good 5-6 who bowls a bit, great fielder, can hit at the death but equally has a good technique that can allow him to build an innings. T20 I'm not sure he has that from ball one hitting type of approach and can be bogged down if you bowl in the right areas to him.

 

[SteveNZ]

Phillips has got himself back into form with his Plunket Shield knocks.

Scored 82 runs without being dismissed in T20Is since playing the 2 rounds of plunket.

Finn Allen, since skipping the 2 rounds of plunket is averaging 8.5 in T20Is.

Facts.

That's facts, but I don't think it's that simple. Should Allen have played Plunket Shield? Yeah probably if he's in Wellington's best XI which I guess he would be (he's not an opener's backside in whites, so at 5 or wherever). So I dunno why he didn't. But I'm not sure that would've done much for him.

His approach is just not conducive to scoring international runs. He's not reacting to the ball, he's pre-meditating anything on length to get moosed over the leg side. He might've watched Brendon slap it all over the place in the 2015 WC but Brendon had been playing international cricket for 13 years at that stage. And he was much more selective with which area of the ground he was hitting to. I'd guarantee the way Finn Allen is playing now won't be the way he's playing in 12-18-24 months time because it might work for domestic bowlers but it isn't going to against even Bangladesh and definitely at a World Cup.

 

[TheBrand]

You would assume Finn Allen's head is going to be swimming with knowledge after the IPL regardless if he gets any game time or not.

 

[Immenso]

Yeah, I'm just venting that he wasn't playing cricket, and no reason given.

Still, facts, though.

 

[nzfan]

You would assume Finn Allen's head is going to be swimming with knowledge after the IPL regardless if he gets any game time or not.

Don't put too much importance on IPL experience of learning unless he's in the starting XI. I've heard from players you're pretty much on your own if you are not in the starting XI. Technically you're struck in a hotel room and won't travel with the team either if you are not in the preferred 12 or 13 players. The number of hits you get in the nets is very minimal and rare. Players have said they spent like 2 months in a hotel room, wake up, breakfast, swim, a gym session at the hotel, grab a drink or two in the night, attend some sponsor's events, sign few autograph for folks who will be wondering who you are and the next day same drill all over again. Other than some cash nothing to look forward to or learn if you're not in the first 14-15 players.

If you're a bowler at least you get to bowl every session. If he's not in the starting XI he's pretty much relying on facing some batters bowling for fun or some throw downs. You don't even get to face net bowlers is what I've heard.

If you are thinking big dogs like Kohli, ABD etc will go about helping the youngsters in the team you are dreaming. It'd be hard for the younger and unpreferred lot to get a selfie with them let alone get a coaching session from them.

Bottom line, there is no magic pill that'll make anyone good in my opinion. Cricket although a team game is a solitary sport. Guys have to put in the hard yard, work themselves out what works best for them, give it everything and not get carried away. Just because you hang around with better players doesn't make you a better player.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah, I'm just venting that he wasn't playing cricket, and no reason given.

Still, facts, though.

Would Barbados want to make Kraigg Brathwaite feel stink by putting in an official release why he doesn't feature in some T20 plans? Not really.

No, we badly need that Indian-backed NZ T20 club league I mentioned to be going at the same time as the Plunket Shield, for these kids like Josh Finnie and Allen. I can guarantee the ones born 2005-2010 coming through are (in general) even less apologetic about their short attention spans, so I'd say to NZC you may as well do it now.

About 16 games of club T20 just going during the best two months of weather in the background, based somewhere central for the North Island outfits, like at Owen Delany Park in Taupo or something. All the South Asian families who only really like T20 can drive up there on a Friday evening, no neighbours to complain about the lights, affordable camping ground right next door. It's quite a good time.

 

[nzfan]

Yeah, I'm just venting that he wasn't playing cricket, and no reason given.

Still, facts, though.

Didn't he say the reason was to concentrate on white ball cricket, BCs and IPL for the time being to upkeep the t20 form? He was working with Malan preparing for t20s. None of the coaching staff thought it would be beneficial for him to switch formats given the form he was in. I can understand that although would have loved to see him playing red ball cricket.

It's only been two games, first game he had one ball to face and showed some form in the second. He may as well smash a hundred next game. You never know. Too early to work out where he's at right now but deserves to play the next game as well no doubt about that.

 

[SteveNZ]

Didn't he say the reason was to concentrate on white ball cricket, BCs and IPL for the time being to upkeep the t20 form? He was working with Malan preparing for t20s. None of the coaching staff thought it would be beneficial for him to switch formats given the form he was in. I can understand that although would have loved to see him playing red ball cricket.

It's only been two games, first game he had one ball to face and showed some form in the second. He may as well smash a hundred next game. You never know. Too early to work out where he's at right now but deserves to play the next game as well no doubt about that.

Finn Allen was working with Malan on his T20 game? That's impressive if so, that a coach of another province is doing that (potentially in line with NZ A? Or maybe not).

I've heard the same incidentally around the IPL and how cut-throat it is for guys who aren't in the XI. They're totally focused on the guys who are playing. I still think Finn will benefit from being in that environment and the conversations, but he won't have the same access to the best net bowlers, coach's time, all that sort of real tangible stuff he'd want to have to improve.

 

[Immenso]

My right to use stats from a sample of 2 games to make my whingy point about 21 year olds not rounding out their raw game by actually not playing games of all formats, will need to be pried from my cold dead hands.

Christ, I was just hoping to flush out news that he was injured or something but I missed it because I only use the old NZC site not cricket nation. I did not want my fears that we are building our own version of Nicolas Pooran to be confirmed.

 

[Flem274*]

allen isn't good enough to make wellingtons fc team atm

 

[nzfan]

Finn Allen was working with Malan on his T20 game? That's impressive if so, that a coach of another province is doing that (potentially in line with NZ A? Or maybe not).

I've heard the same incidentally around the IPL and how cut-throat it is for guys who aren't in the XI. They're totally focused on the guys who are playing. I still think Finn will benefit from being in that environment and the conversations, but he won't have the same access to the best net bowlers, coach's time, all that sort of real tangible stuff he'd want to have to improve.

All domestic coaches are invited to coach NZ XI and NZ As. Some prefer and some don't. Malan isn't coaching NZ A anymore I think.

Allen left Wellington right after super smash and given he's from Auckland the best bloke there to work with was Malan hence the arrangement.

In the domestic circuit everyone knows everyone anyways. There are lot of players that still rely on their past coaches to help them out.

Cricket is a bit like golf in that sense the players always go back to the coaches that they worked with in the past. The domestic coaches don't really mind that given they have enough on their plate to worry about and time is short during the season. Besides not all domestic coaches are good enough in all aspects of cricket. Some may be good at setting up the team environment and culture, some at batting, some at spin bowling, some at fast bowling etc.. there's only so much a single coach or two can do and they'll have to deal with 16 players.

Don't think any player would have approached Hessen for any technical advise whatsoever.

 

[Bahnz]

allen isn't good enough to make wellingtons fc team atm

Made all the sadder by the fact that Wellington have already locked up the wooden spoon.

 

[kaetor]

Weather looks shocking in Auckland tonight, might be a sad end to the summer.

 

[Chewie]

The past few days the weather forecast has been for torrential rain and it only happened for a short period so you never know with Auckland weather

 

[Nintendo]

Don't put too much importance on IPL experience of learning unless he's in the starting XI. I've heard from players you're pretty much on your own if you are not in the starting XI. Technically you're struck in a hotel room and won't travel with the team either if you are not in the preferred 12 or 13 players. The number of hits you get in the nets is very minimal and rare. Players have said they spent like 2 months in a hotel room, wake up, breakfast, swim, a gym session at the hotel, grab a drink or two in the night, attend some sponsor's events, sign few autograph for folks who will be wondering who you are and the next day same drill all over again. Other than some cash nothing to look forward to or learn if you're not in the first 14-15 players.

If you're a bowler at least you get to bowl every session. If he's not in the starting XI he's pretty much relying on facing some batters bowling for fun or some throw downs. You don't even get to face net bowlers is what I've heard.

If you are thinking big dogs like Kohli, ABD etc will go about helping the youngsters in the team you are dreaming. It'd be hard for the younger and unpreferred lot to get a selfie with them let alone get a coaching session from them.

Bottom line, there is no magic pill that'll make anyone good in my opinion. Cricket although a team game is a solitary sport. Guys have to put in the hard yard, work themselves out what works best for them, give it everything and not get carried away. Just because you hang around with better players doesn't make you a better player.

Sorry but this is questionable at best. We have statements from plenty of overseas guys in the RCB Camp who where in there first season at the franchise and fringe picks for the starting XI (Philippe, Zampa,etc) and all that I've read have had extremely positive feedback to give in relation to Kohli, AB, and other guys in the camps involvement with everyone including guys not in the preferred 12/13

 

[SteveNZ]

Sorry but this is questionable at best. We have statements from plenty of overseas guys in the RCB Camp who where in there first season at the franchise and fringe picks for the starting XI (Philippe, Zampa,etc) and all that I've read have had extremely positive feedback to give in relation to Kohli, AB, and other guys in the camps involvement with everyone including guys not in the preferred 12/13

Yeah, that's publicly. I'd suggest buttering up the captain is a smart strategy when it comes to reselection.

I know that players outside the main XI/XII can feel like they're not quite part of the journey. And hey, that's not to say that happens at every franchise.

 

[nzfan]

Sorry but this is questionable at best. We have statements from plenty of overseas guys in the RCB Camp who where in there first season at the franchise and fringe picks for the starting XI (Philippe, Zampa,etc) and all that I've read have had extremely positive feedback to give in relation to Kohli, AB, and other guys in the camps involvement with everyone including guys not in the preferred 12/13

Believe what you may... I didn't talk about RCB in particular, all franchises in general. Heard from horses' mouth to speak about 2 months paid holiday at a lavish hotel for a franchise given the player was not in the scheme of things. That doesn't mean he was ill treated or not in good terms with the other players. I meant the opportunities to learn from star players/coaches etc is overstated. The player had more events to attend than net practice or games.

 

[_Ed_]

Drove through a downpour of almost biblical proportions near Silverdale on the way south for these games. Hope it stays away from Eden Park.