***Official*** Bangladesh in NZ 2021-22

[nzfan]

NZ have a 2 from 3 record at the Mount, and with respect to the Bangbros, England and Pakistan were expected to be far more dangerous.

I don't think it's secretly some kryptonite home pitch that proves NZ have been pulling the wool over our eyes, especially since it's still a quicker deck than some of the UAE and SL pitches they've won on.

Bangladesh are allowed to play well.

Bangladesh played really well, they did outplay us with the bat and ball. Fair result I guess. They are an international side for a reason and players that make international sides are capable. They would have been through the grind so no shame there but the question is can we win overseas with 4 fast bowlers combination. I guess not. Then we need to play a spinner but then these days you don't get time to acclimatize and that could mean our spinners will be undercooked. I'd say if we continue to have a game at Mount and at Seddon park our spinners will also come into play at home which will help in the long run.

 

[nzfan]

Today will be an interesting day, Bangladesh will bat longer than they did in the first inning I feel. I just hope they do use the 5th bowler if things are not happening for one or two of them.

 

[Skyliner]

It isn't even really about spin, the pitch at the Mount didn't suit our "slightly back of a length and nick them off strategy" and we looked unable to cope with the change.

I am unsure really what we should do. It's nice being dominant at home in a way, though the generally homogenous conditions does lead to a poor away record and blips when you get a pitch like the one in the first test.

Is it better to be a jack of all trades? Or a master of one?

If you are a 'master of one' then you'll look great at Hagley, the Basin, and some English pitches as well, and probably struggle in most other places.

 

[straw man]

NZ have a 2 from 3 record at the Mount, and with respect to the Bangbros, England and Pakistan were expected to be far more dangerous.

I don't think it's secretly some kryptonite home pitch that proves NZ have been pulling the wool over our eyes, especially since it's still a quicker deck than some of the UAE and SL pitches they've won on.

Bangladesh are allowed to play well.

Correct.

Skyliner has a smidgeon of a point, but always wrapped in a tone of this NZ side is secretly crap and needs to be ripped down - I don't know what he gets out of this. The smidgeon of a point is that a) there was nothing really wrong with the Mount pitch and b) sometimes this NZ bowling attack can struggle on flat wickets.

For (a), I agree, the Mount pitch was fine. It would've been poor if it only ever flattened out and became a true road on day 4 and 5, but it didn't. Three results from three, can't argue with it.

For (b), there have been instances including the Mount and Melbourne a couple of years ago where this bowling attack has looked quite toothless... but there have also been many many examples of them making wickets out of nothing but pressure, and bowling sides out to win matches on flat wickets, both at home and overseas. It's what Neil Wagner has made a career of doing, and all of Boult, Southee and Jamieson have shown this too. Would we like that extra dimension of someone like Pat Cummins with extra pace and ability to extract movement out of even the deadest of wickets? Yes of course. It's why I was so keen for Ferguson to become a fixture in this side, which looks unlikely now. When Wagner retires, Jamieson should continue to develop as someone who can bowl old-ball spells on flat wickets, and Ajaz will doubtless get some more matches too. So there's room for improvement, which is not the same as saying the Mount has unmasked this bowling attack for being secretly rubbish.

 

[thierry henry]

It’s possible that at this very moment with our attack ageing, that they have coalesced into a group of 130kph seamers to some extent. But to infer that actually this team has just succeeded by bowling medium pace on green tops and has been poor overseas is such revisionist nonsense I don’t even know where to start.

Seriously it was like 5 minutes ago that punters couldn’t get enough of how ‘varied’ our seam attack was.

I also don’t know why I’m even engaging with this because as Flem rightfully points out, for some reason people keep responding to and agreeing with a pretty obvious troll. Lift the standards ffs NZ posters.

 

[straw man]

Seriously it was like 5 minutes ago that punters couldn’t get enough of how ‘varied’ our seam attack was.

Craig McMillan literally right now on comms "That's why this New Zealand attack have been so good for so long because, they complement one another so well. They're all so different and it gives you so many options as a captain".

Mark your bingo card.

 

[Immenso]

This has actually been a historically high peak for NZ performing overseas.

Even with no warmups and using overseas specialist like Ajaz.

 

[thierry henry]

Craig McMillan literally right now on comms "That's why this New Zealand attack have been so good for so long because, they complement one another so well. They're all so different and it gives you so many options as a captain".

Mark your bingo card.

It’s basically true, is the point. Right arm/left arm new ball bowlers, short skiddy left arm bouncer bowler who is basically a unicorn, and extremely tall guy who can bounce you out or swing it both ways.

Also Boult and Southee are probably more similar now than they used to be. Used to be more 130kph tall nick you off guy and 140kph skiddier, genuinely brisk leftie who threatened the stumps.

Ok no-one was bowling 150kph but I question whether that’s ever been mandatory.

 

[thundaboult]

on cricinfo:

Glen: "@CaM the nz bowlers, apart from Southee, do bowl above 140 when conditions suit. These are swing conditions so the are bowling to maximise swing. Jamison in particular goes close to 150kmh at times. "

what?? you watch cricket at all glen?

 

[thundaboult]

It’s basically true, is the point. Right arm/left arm new ball bowlers, short skiddy left arm bouncer bowler who is basically a unicorn, and extremely tall guy who can bounce you out or swing it both ways.

Also Boult and Southee are probably more similar now than they used to be. Used to be more 130kph tall nick you off guy and 140kph skiddier, genuinely brisk leftie who threatened the stumps.

Ok no-one was bowling 150kph but I question whether that’s ever been mandatory.

having a 90mph guy in there definitely seems mandatory enough these days

 

[Skyliner]

NZ was humiliated on the last tour of Australia whereas India with a varied attack - including pace and spin - earned respect and won a series.

Tim Southee - even accounting for his so-called 'good' last Australian tour (where he actually picked up some windfall wickets of batsmen chasing quick runs) - averages 41.62 versus Australia and 61.87 versus South Africa.

Trent Boult averages 41.69 versus Australia and 39.87 versus South Africa (43.22 in South Africa).

I'm not sure what beating up on Bangladesh in conditions that are to an extent doctored to make the NZ seamers look like a million bucks is really achieving.

My suggestion would be to come up with conditions here that encourage a more varied attack, and be honest about the areas where we have deficiencies.

 

[thierry henry]

?

 

[Immenso]

Is it just me, or is there an absolute plague of legside strangles in test cricket last few years?

 

[Meridio]

Ah yes South Africa, where noted 150 km/hr merchant Vernon Philander did so well

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Ah yes South Africa, where noted 150 km/hr merchant Vernon Philander did so well

not to mention the myth of steyn being 145 when he bowled 135ish for most of his great spells

 

[Skyliner]

'Lifting standards' here would be about having genuine debates and being less 'fan boy' about where the side is really at, rather than having a clique of guys who repeat the same in-jokes and pet phrases day in and day out year after year and feel threatened when someone else challenges their narrative.

Seems like the response of many is just to shrug off the horror show at the Mount and even actually suggest we should stop playing tests there, rather than say that that test exposed some alarming deficiencies that will no doubt show up again as soon as we take on strong opposition. If you drop a bloke who just took 10 wickets for you because the home pitches have absolutely nothing there for him then something is badly off. Imagine Australia dropping Lyon in similar circumstances. We are going down a blind alley when we double-down on producing a certain style of pitch.

 

[Skyliner]

Ah yes South Africa, where noted 150 km/hr merchant Vernon Philander did so well

Do you remember Dale Steyn by any chance?

 

[thierry henry]

not to mention the myth of steyn being 145 when he bowled 135ish for most of his great spells

Yeah one thing I hate about this whole debate is you go down an eternal rabbit hole of how fast people actually bowl anyway. Guys like Rabada and Bumrah for example would be used to support the idea that you need express pace but I’ve seen them bowling so much in the 130s in tests.

 

[straw man]

I'd love him to, but as it stands it looks unlikely - he's on 232 now and is nearly 36. You'd assume the remaining 68 wickets would take at least another 15 Tests, and probably closer to 20 given his age and competition for wickets in this New Zealand side now. New Zealand are only scheduled to play another 10 Tests - including this current one - as part of the current WTC cycle (plus one more if they make the final), after which it will be mid 2023 and he'll be well into his 38th year.

That being said, I hope I'm wrong and he either lights up over the next twelve months to race to the mark or plays on like Jimmy until he's 52.

In five years time I dream Wags will still be running in, red and angry as a tomato, surprising batsmen with the bounce at 122k/h and suckering batsmen with 117km/h bouncers.

 

[thierry henry]

'Lifting standards' here would be about having genuine debates and being less 'fan boy' about where the side is really at, rather than having a clique of guys who repeat the same in-jokes and pet phrases day in and day out year after year and feel threatened when someone else challenges their narrative.

Seems like the response of many is just to shrug off the horror show at the Mount and even actually suggest we should stop playing tests there, rather than say that that test exposed some alarming deficiencies that will no doubt show up again as soon as we take on strong opposition. If you drop a bloke who just took 10 wickets for you because the home pitches have absolutely nothing there for him then something is badly off. Imagine Australia dropping Lyon in similar circumstances. We are going down a blind alley when we double-down on producing a certain style of pitch.

In all seriousness, why do you keep quoting cricinfo commentary? Is it some sort of weird tic, or the more likely explanation that you are not actually watching?