wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Yup, terrific performance by the youngster. Great attitude to keep it together when the wheels were coming off elsewhere with the comedy fielding.
What sort of pace was he bowling?
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*Official* Australia v England post-Ashes ODI series
- Thread starter TheJediBrah
- Start date
What sort of pace was he bowling?
Spikey
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Looking forward to the hot takes about how Root being man of the series here is proof he can't handle the test captaincy
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
130 - 138 generally, with a few slower balls. But he was pitching them up and hurrying the batsmen, the opposite of Ball. Granted some day he might try the same when the ball's not swinging and get belted, but with the ball swinging he was hard to deal with.
flibbertyjibber
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No. just no. Scored about the same every innings as he did in the tests.
Master of the decent score without going on.
flibbertyjibber
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Why I am a bit annoyed he isn't in the test squad for NZ. May get more swing there than in his tests in Australia and looks a better prospect than many who have played over the last few years.
Probably be in the squad by the time the tests come round though as Wood will snap again.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Australia.
The batting underperformers:
Smith - 5 matches, 102 runs at 20.4 @ 68.91 SR
Warner - 5 matches, 73 runs at 14.60 @ 94.8 SR
White - 3 matches, 35 runs at 17.5 @ 66.03 SR
Head - 4 matches, 130 runs at 32.50 @ 79.75 SR
Paine - 4 matches, 117 runs at 58.50 @ 82.97
Warner and Smith are both woefully out of form.
Picking White was very bad. He batted at the wrong place in the order in the first match and then batted 3, for which he is suited but it seems that age has caught up with him.
Head is underperforming but not too badly. Still, he was below his career average and strike rate and needlessly threw his wicket away today by not running hard.
With the amount of red ink he got, I'm surprised Paine isn't from NSW. His average is heavily flattered by not outs. He doesn't seem to have the hitting ability we need from a number 7 and failed to get us over the line on more than one occasion. Looks like he'd be a good batsman if he played in the 80s. On paper it's hard to drop a guy averaging nearly 60 at a strike rate of over 80 but the reality is that he's batting number 7 and had a highest score of 34. At no time was he able to accelerate the scoring to the rate needed to get us over the line.
The batting performers:
Finch - 3 matches, 275 runs at 91.66 @ 96.15 SR
Stoinis - 5 matches, 221 runs at 44.2 @ 111.05 SR
Marsh - 5 matches, 186 runs at 37.2 @ 85.32 SR
Finch was brilliant until he got injured. With two centuries and a half century in three games Australia should not have gone 0-3 in the games he played. Cemented his spot until the WC IMO.
Stoinis showed us that he's an ODI talent and can bat anywhere in the order. He seems to be well suited to building big innings. Great find in great form in a losing team.
Marsh was quite good but had a tendency to throw his wicket away at a key moment. Really needs to bat further down the order than 5. He's an ideal #7 really and given he can bowl, there's no reason why he can't bat there.
The underperforming bowlers:
Starc - 4 matches, 7 wickets at 36.6. Econ 6.56
Zampa - 4 matches, 2 wickets at 107.5. Econ 5.97
Stoinis - 5 matches, 2 wickets at 67. Econ 6.28
Both Starc and Zampa were too expensive. Starc in particular was very untidy, especially by his standards. Zampa was simply unthreatening. I can't see how we can continue with him. Two wickets in four matches going at six runs per over during the middle overs is something I'd expect out of a part time bowler, but Zampa is playing as a specialist. Stoinis was basically what one would expect from a part timer - going for six an over and not taking many wickets. Basically Zampa.
The performing bowlers:
Cummins - 3 matches, 7 wickets at 22. Econ 5.13
Tye - 4 matches, 8 wickets at 21. Econ 4.63
Hazlewood - 3 matches, 5 wickets at 29.6. Econ 5.1
Marsh - 5 matches, 3 wickets at 27. Econ 4.5
Tye was a pleasant surprise. He's been gash in ODI cricket until now. Even when he wasn't taking wickets he was fairly tight. Cummins and Hazlewood combined to win us our only victory. Marsh was very good but didn't bowl enough overs (18 overs over 5 matches isn't a very high workload).
Going forward.
Honestly, the biggest concern going forward is the form of Warner, Smith and Starc. These three players are pivotal players playing in key positions and all three of them had woeful series'. Starc less so than the others but when your spearhead is going at 6.5 rpo you aren't going to win cups. Starc's batting has also been woeful, which really doesn't help things.
Outside these players, Head is on thin ice. He's probably done just enough to cling to his place in the team but outside his one innings he had a run of poor scores including a run out which ultimately lead to a loss in a winnable match.
White is almost certainly gone for good. He was a player who probably had a better career than we'll remember him for. But he does seem past it now. His game is suited for the top order, but it seems that his eye isn't good enough to stand up to the international game at the moment.
Zampa really has to go. He's never been consistent enough with the ball and looked dreadful this series. Two wickets in four matches for a specialist bowler isn't good enough really, especially if they're going for six runs an over.
Paine I think needs to either bat higher or not play. He's just not a quick enough scorer for what we need from a number 7. If he could bat at 4, pushing Smith up to 3 and Stoinis back down to 5 I think his slower striking could work. I think Carey is probably a more versatile batsman and should be given a run instead.
My XI
Finch
Warner
Stoinis (7)
Smith
Maxwell (6)
Marsh (5)
Carey
Cummins (3)
Starc (1)
Hazlewood (2)
Lyon (4)
If we deem Lyon unnecessary, then we could bring in a fit Lynn to bat at 3 and push everyone else down a place. Marsh looks good enough to be a fourth bowler anyway, though some wickets will dictate that a spin option is needed.
The batting underperformers:
Smith - 5 matches, 102 runs at 20.4 @ 68.91 SR
Warner - 5 matches, 73 runs at 14.60 @ 94.8 SR
White - 3 matches, 35 runs at 17.5 @ 66.03 SR
Head - 4 matches, 130 runs at 32.50 @ 79.75 SR
Paine - 4 matches, 117 runs at 58.50 @ 82.97
Warner and Smith are both woefully out of form.
Picking White was very bad. He batted at the wrong place in the order in the first match and then batted 3, for which he is suited but it seems that age has caught up with him.
Head is underperforming but not too badly. Still, he was below his career average and strike rate and needlessly threw his wicket away today by not running hard.
With the amount of red ink he got, I'm surprised Paine isn't from NSW. His average is heavily flattered by not outs. He doesn't seem to have the hitting ability we need from a number 7 and failed to get us over the line on more than one occasion. Looks like he'd be a good batsman if he played in the 80s. On paper it's hard to drop a guy averaging nearly 60 at a strike rate of over 80 but the reality is that he's batting number 7 and had a highest score of 34. At no time was he able to accelerate the scoring to the rate needed to get us over the line.
The batting performers:
Finch - 3 matches, 275 runs at 91.66 @ 96.15 SR
Stoinis - 5 matches, 221 runs at 44.2 @ 111.05 SR
Marsh - 5 matches, 186 runs at 37.2 @ 85.32 SR
Finch was brilliant until he got injured. With two centuries and a half century in three games Australia should not have gone 0-3 in the games he played. Cemented his spot until the WC IMO.
Stoinis showed us that he's an ODI talent and can bat anywhere in the order. He seems to be well suited to building big innings. Great find in great form in a losing team.
Marsh was quite good but had a tendency to throw his wicket away at a key moment. Really needs to bat further down the order than 5. He's an ideal #7 really and given he can bowl, there's no reason why he can't bat there.
The underperforming bowlers:
Starc - 4 matches, 7 wickets at 36.6. Econ 6.56
Zampa - 4 matches, 2 wickets at 107.5. Econ 5.97
Stoinis - 5 matches, 2 wickets at 67. Econ 6.28
Both Starc and Zampa were too expensive. Starc in particular was very untidy, especially by his standards. Zampa was simply unthreatening. I can't see how we can continue with him. Two wickets in four matches going at six runs per over during the middle overs is something I'd expect out of a part time bowler, but Zampa is playing as a specialist. Stoinis was basically what one would expect from a part timer - going for six an over and not taking many wickets. Basically Zampa.
The performing bowlers:
Cummins - 3 matches, 7 wickets at 22. Econ 5.13
Tye - 4 matches, 8 wickets at 21. Econ 4.63
Hazlewood - 3 matches, 5 wickets at 29.6. Econ 5.1
Marsh - 5 matches, 3 wickets at 27. Econ 4.5
Tye was a pleasant surprise. He's been gash in ODI cricket until now. Even when he wasn't taking wickets he was fairly tight. Cummins and Hazlewood combined to win us our only victory. Marsh was very good but didn't bowl enough overs (18 overs over 5 matches isn't a very high workload).
Going forward.
Honestly, the biggest concern going forward is the form of Warner, Smith and Starc. These three players are pivotal players playing in key positions and all three of them had woeful series'. Starc less so than the others but when your spearhead is going at 6.5 rpo you aren't going to win cups. Starc's batting has also been woeful, which really doesn't help things.
Outside these players, Head is on thin ice. He's probably done just enough to cling to his place in the team but outside his one innings he had a run of poor scores including a run out which ultimately lead to a loss in a winnable match.
White is almost certainly gone for good. He was a player who probably had a better career than we'll remember him for. But he does seem past it now. His game is suited for the top order, but it seems that his eye isn't good enough to stand up to the international game at the moment.
Zampa really has to go. He's never been consistent enough with the ball and looked dreadful this series. Two wickets in four matches for a specialist bowler isn't good enough really, especially if they're going for six runs an over.
Paine I think needs to either bat higher or not play. He's just not a quick enough scorer for what we need from a number 7. If he could bat at 4, pushing Smith up to 3 and Stoinis back down to 5 I think his slower striking could work. I think Carey is probably a more versatile batsman and should be given a run instead.
My XI
Finch
Warner
Stoinis (7)
Smith
Maxwell (6)
Marsh (5)
Carey
Cummins (3)
Starc (1)
Hazlewood (2)
Lyon (4)
If we deem Lyon unnecessary, then we could bring in a fit Lynn to bat at 3 and push everyone else down a place. Marsh looks good enough to be a fourth bowler anyway, though some wickets will dictate that a spin option is needed.
LegionOfBrad
International Debutant
Because it's a statement of fact rather than a prediction.
Top_Cat
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This is easily the worst of the losses in this series.
Head getting caught short ball-watching was pivotal, set the tone because they were cruising until that moment. He captains and is the senior bat for SA, should be smoking them in Oz colours, demanding more of himself and being amongst the first picked. That coupled with getting out in the 90’s again last match is damning of him as a player, tbh.
Stoinis’ shot wasn’t great but he’d already done a lot of the work and has been doing his job all series. The rot had set in well before then.
Head getting caught short ball-watching was pivotal, set the tone because they were cruising until that moment. He captains and is the senior bat for SA, should be smoking them in Oz colours, demanding more of himself and being amongst the first picked. That coupled with getting out in the 90’s again last match is damning of him as a player, tbh.
Stoinis’ shot wasn’t great but he’d already done a lot of the work and has been doing his job all series. The rot had set in well before then.
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quincywagstaff
International Debutant
Agree with pretty much all of Stephen's analysis.
I wouldn't bother with Paine again as a ODI bat; just hasn't got the hitting power to be a viable force. In the 3rd & 5th ODIs apart from when he faced an unwell Ball his inability to score boundaries (or even many 2/3 runs) was a factor in Australia falling short.
White seemed an odd and pointless selection driven almost to spite Maxwell... and hard to see it any different now. Hasn't got an ODI 50 in over 7 years and 20 innings; zero chance of getting another ODI shot.
I've rated Zampa previously but he was a big disappointment this series, especially in comparison to how Rashid did.
Continued impressiveness of Stoinis, Tye's improvement and Richardson's promising debut were the main positives Australia could take away from this series.
I wouldn't bother with Paine again as a ODI bat; just hasn't got the hitting power to be a viable force. In the 3rd & 5th ODIs apart from when he faced an unwell Ball his inability to score boundaries (or even many 2/3 runs) was a factor in Australia falling short.
White seemed an odd and pointless selection driven almost to spite Maxwell... and hard to see it any different now. Hasn't got an ODI 50 in over 7 years and 20 innings; zero chance of getting another ODI shot.
I've rated Zampa previously but he was a big disappointment this series, especially in comparison to how Rashid did.
Continued impressiveness of Stoinis, Tye's improvement and Richardson's promising debut were the main positives Australia could take away from this series.
The problem in the test squad is his stock ball is about 80mph and there's probably only room for him or Anderson at that pace. There's a lot to like about his approach to the game. Ideally he'll fill out a little more and pick up a yard of pace.
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He's blond, and bowls leg spin. That's it.
morgieb
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His first 10-15 games were genuinely great. So is his T20 performances.
Has been mostly downhill since then, though.
