*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

[HeathDavisSpeed]

On RNZ this morning they mentioned that Southee said he didn't necessarily expect to be captain for NZ's next Test assignment.

Take the uncertainty away - resign, or sack him. Either way, bring in someone new who can lead on the team culture side and crack some work ethic into them. I'm actually wondering if Phillips might be the go here.

 

[Bahnz]

Seems like Southee is being pretty realistic about things. One of the advantages of being a more laid back personality is that it may make accepting the inevitable a tad easier than Wags found it.

 

[Days of Grace]

It's precisely this attitude that has killed my life-long passion for cricket.

I had been wavering for a long time, but it was during the 2nd test against South Africa in 2022 that I had finally had enough.

We'd dominated the first test. It wasn't a particularly good SA side. I was looking forward to finally seeing us take a series against them - one of the final frontiers.

Instead, NZ went down meekly. My abiding memory is of watching their bowlers with bats in their hands, hammering ours to all parts while our guys laughed and joked with each other as if it was a social game.

The NZ cricket team looked like they just didn't care, so I thought "why should I?"

Yes, I emerged from my funk to watch this series, partly because I had cabin fever from a bout of covid but mainly because it's Australia.

But nothing has changed. If the NZ cricket team is not defined by outcomes, then what is the point of them?

Meanwhile the headline from McCullum is that “Exposed England need to get better.” That is the kind of talk I want coming out of the camp.

 

[James]

Meanwhile the headline from McCullum is that “Exposed England need to get better.” That is the kind of talk I want coming out of the camp.

100%. .

It's been the typical sporting analogy going on for decades between New Zealand (being the nice guys but lose) and Australia (hard work and win at all costs mentality). I can't imagine an Australian player of any era coming out with anything close to what Daryl Mitchell has said.

 

[anonymouskefe]

Meanwhile the headline from McCullum is that “Exposed England need to get better.” That is the kind of talk I want coming out of the camp.

Even more frustrating is that headline is coming from a kiwi

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Seems like Southee is being pretty realistic about things. One of the advantages of being a more laid back personality is that it may make accepting the inevitable a tad easier than Wags found it.

Also only 2 seamers in Asia rather than 4 in NZ.

 

[Bahnz]

As in most other areas, Matt Henry showing that he does media engagement waaaaaay better than his team mates.

Black Caps respond after commentators turn on Kiwi batter

Matt Henry defended his teammate for saying New Zealand aren’t 'defined by outcomes'.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Dick Rockett]

As in most other areas, Matt Henry showing that he does media engagement waaaaaay better than his team mates.

Black Caps respond after commentators turn on Kiwi batter

Matt Henry defended his teammate for saying New Zealand aren’t 'defined by outcomes'.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Ok, let's accept that Mitchell didn't manage to say exactly how he felt about the loss.

He was still using words and phrases that he hears every day in the dressing room. Those are the team's words. That's how they collectively think. And it's obvious to everyone watching and listening.

Henry may have been more articulate, but that's relative. It still sounds very "oh well, you can't win 'em all" to me.

Nobody want's to hear that you're disappointed, Matt. I want to hear how pissed off you are, and how you're counting down the days until the next tour so you can go over there and stuff them like you know you can.

 

[RMBolton]

100%. .

It's been the typical sporting analogy going on for decades between New Zealand (being the nice guys but lose) and Australia (hard work and win at all costs mentality). I can't imagine an Australian player of any era coming out with anything close to what Daryl Mitchell has said.

Honestly, f*** the "nice guys" shtick. That needs to go quick smart.

 

[thierry henry]

There's some great posting going on here but some of it is being undermined by a suggestion that BazMac represents the antithesis of a way of thinking, when he is arguably the Godfather of it.

This whole "play the way you want to play and with a smile on your face, see ball hit ball" with a side of "we're not good enough to keep the good balls out anyway, so just swing hard" is pure McCullum and the residue of that approach still lingers in some of the worst elements of this side (particularly the tail-end slogging). We don't need BazimusMaximums back, we need to purge his **** out of our system.

 

[Dick Rockett]

It's the confidence and belief and the swagger that I love(d) about McCullum, when he was playing. You may be right though, perhaps that doesn't translate into his coaching that well but by god I would love some of those qualities back in this NZ side.

 

[Spark]

100%. .

It's been the typical sporting analogy going on for decades between New Zealand (being the nice guys but lose) and Australia (hard work and win at all costs mentality). I can't imagine an Australian player of any era coming out with anything close to what Daryl Mitchell has said.

Justin Langer said something not too dissimilar to that in the immediate aftermath of the Gabba loss to India

 

[thierry henry]

It's the confidence and belief and the swagger that I love(d) about McCullum, when he was playing. You may be right though, perhaps that doesn't translate into his coaching that well but by god I would love some of those qualities back in this NZ side.

I think it translates exactly into his coaching. "Swagger" and "belief" over cricket skills, cricket discipline and cricket strategy. Vibes over rigour and execution. To me that's the McCullum legacy that's remained with the side.

Actually hot take, but I think the direct line from Mitchell's "Chad vibes" to Mitchell's attitude towards losing is being overlooked here too. He's a massively vibey cricketer, a guy who walks at bowlers to "impose himself" for the sake of imposing himself, not because someone has run the numbers and it's the best strategy to win cricket matches.

 

[Flem274*]

I think it translates exactly into his coaching. "Swagger" and "belief" over cricket skills, cricket discipline and cricket strategy. Vibes over rigour and execution. To me that's the McCullum legacy that's remained with the side.

Actually hot take, but I think the direct line from Mitchell's "Chad vibes" to Mitchell's attitude towards losing is being overlooked here too. He's a massively vibey cricketer, a guy who walks at bowlers to "impose himself" for the sake of imposing himself, not because someone has run the numbers and it's the best strategy to win cricket matches.

Ok this is a hot take. I think Mitchell's method helps him score more runs, not less. Have you watched him stay creasebound? He looks every bit the 37 average fc player he used to be before he developed more options to score against spin especially.

Tbh when you're tall and strong with his pull shot you may as well walk at most pace bowlers.

I don't rate the extremes of mccullums style either, but teaching England to let it go took them from trash tier who lost to our B team to top 4.

 

[Zinzan]

I've been almost completely disengaged with this Test team ever since that horrible decision to make Southee captain was made, so part of me is okay with our recent decline and humiliation with the caveat and hope being we move on from him, which unfortunately may now not happen. Until we do move on from him, and quit making stupid selections like SK, I'll continue to be watching from a distance much like many other NZ fans by the sounds.

 

[jcas0167]

Who would you have made captain instead of Southee? Latham didn't really impress when he got the chance in England and earlier when Kane was out with his elbow issue. He would presumably be next in line.

Southee has definitely declined with his bowling this season but have the teams results under him been worse than from the 2021 WTC to the end of 2022 when he took over? They've drawn with England, drawn in Bangladesh after losing the first test. I think he has been too reluctant to use spin in this series but Kane and Latham have been too.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, not a fan of the Southee hate. Prior to this season it's not like his bowling was particularly bad. Got handy wickets for us in Bangladesh, contributed well enough last summer. Got pasted in England in 2022 but so did all our bowlers. It was only last season that somebody started a thread asking whether Southee would pass Hadlee's record.

And I think in terms of his captaincy it's been no worse and arguably an improvement on Latham's who always struck me as a little passive. Just bad timing that this series had to coincide with him finally getting old.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Who would you have made captain instead of Southee? Latham didn't really impress when he got the chance in England and earlier when Kane was out with his elbow issue. He would presumably be next in line.

Southee has definitely declined with his bowling this season but have the teams results under him been worse than from the 2021 WTC to the end of 2022 when he took over? They've drawn with England, drawn in Bangladesh after losing the first test. I think he has been too reluctant to use spin in this series but Kane and Latham have been too.

Probably Mitchell but would love if Phillips got the job.

 

[Zinzan]

Who would you have made captain instead of Southee? Latham didn't really impress when he got the chance in England and earlier when Kane was out with his elbow issue. He would presumably be next in line.

Firstly, I'm not absolutely sure of this but did hear through a rumour-mill that KW wanted to keep the Test captaincy over the white-ball forms, when of course they did the opposite. That said, and forgetting KW, I would have preferred any of, Latham (who admittedly has been in inconsistent form, but still clearly justifies his spot in the Team), Mitchell (as much as I hated his recent comment, he is super competitive & demands a spot), or even Conway as a caretaker if they are waiting for the likes of Phillips or Ravindra to be ready in a couple of years.

 

[thierry henry]

Who would you have made captain instead of Southee? Latham didn't really impress when he got the chance in England and earlier when Kane was out with his elbow issue. He would presumably be next in line.

Southee has definitely declined with his bowling this season but have the teams results under him been worse than from the 2021 WTC to the end of 2022 when he took over? They've drawn with England, drawn in Bangladesh after losing the first test. I think he has been too reluctant to use spin in this series but Kane and Latham have been too.

yeah I’m certainly not prepared to die on the ‘Southee was the right choice’ hill but….we have been better with Southee than we were before, so saying we declined when he became captain is just untrue. The deterioration was at its worst pre-Southee and we’ve just sort of meandered along under him.