*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

[Bahnz]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764890542557822992

There's been a fun running joke on the grade Cricketer podcast that the Australia NZ cricketing relationship being summed up by this exchange from Mad Men.

This series with NZ fans pulling out 6 year old sand paper jokes and Australians - who haven't watched a ball of NZ cricket since the 2019 tour - wondering why Wagner isn't playing fits the gag so perfectly.

 

[RMBolton]

Australia is negligent/patronising toward NZ, while NZ desperately seeks Australia's respect/approval that will never come.

I've always said that it's deeply unhealthy, & from a NZ perspective unless it can fuel a successful drive for revenge (at this rate only humiliating them 4-0 in 2026/7 will do) to achieve catharsis, then we need to move on. Stop putting Australia on a pedestal, move on from an obsession with them, have other rivalries, tell them to "get f***ed, we don't need you", or something like that, or at least get out of their shadow.

Of course, that's hard when you've never won a WC, or otherwise still feel you haven't "made it" yet as a cricketing nation.

 

[Flem274*]

It's one of those relationships in cricket where NZ need to realise a comfortable test series win will trigger a national crisis in Australia due to a century of being able to talk a lot of chat with no repercussions. They launched an inquisition after India won over there, but they've lost to India more than they've lost to us. I hope one day we rediscover embracing the opportunity to cause them a national panic instead of panicking at the first sighting of some random like Joe Burns.

It can be done. We've seen it in miniature with England. Within 50 years we went from pats on the head from smug colonial imperialists to using them as practice for our B team before the world test final and winning comfortably. They immediately threw money at the most meme New Zealander they could think of to teach them to play with a backbone.

It's unfortunate England are the second biggest cricket media in gravitas because they've been able to rewrite the narrative quite well. We really gave them the ultimate disrespect. Not only were they practice for Will Young, Matt Henry and Ajaz Patel, people have already forgotten how hard we took the piss. Gary Stead saying Boult wouldn't be in contention for the final due to no game time, Trent Boult announcing himself he would be playing and using the second test as a warm up, the """injured""" Colin de Grandhomme happily fielding in that game to ensure all the quicks got to put their feet up.

It really was the best time to be an NZ fan. For three games NZ were the best squad in the world. No one was defeating Kyle Jamieson or Kane Williamson that winter.

ENG vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Birmingham, June 10 - 13, 2021

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, ENG vs NZ, New Zealand in England 2021 at Edgbaston, Birmingham dated June 10 - 13, 2021.

www.espncricinfo.com

And now we've sleepwalked into mediocrity again. Boohoo.

 

[RMBolton]

Just imagine if Australia had lost 2-0, or even 1-0, in 2001.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's one of those relationships in cricket where NZ need to realise a comfortable test series win will trigger a national crisis in Australia due to a century of being able to talk a lot of chat with no repercussions.

You are massively overrating the importance of a series like this for Australia. If they lost I doubt it would be much in the public eye.

It's always only really been the Ashes (and World Cups) that really matters to most people. The India series wasn't even considered that big of a deal among casual cricket fans. The 2010-11 Ashes loss however led to the Argus review.

 

[Spark]

You are massively overrating the importance of a series like this for Australia. If they lost I doubt it would be much in the public eye.

It's always only really been the Ashes (and World Cups) that really matters to most people. The India series wasn't even considered that big of a deal among casual cricket fans. The 2010-11 Ashes loss however led to the Argus review.

India definitely matters these days tbf.

You're otherwise correct though. The football codes are starting this week; the vast majority of casual fans have tuned out of following cricket until November.

 

[mackembhoy]

There's been a fun running joke on the grade Cricketer podcast that the Australia NZ cricketing relationship being summed up by this exchange from Mad Men.

This series with NZ fans pulling out 6 year old sand paper jokes and Australians - who haven't watched a ball of NZ cricket since the 2019 tour - wondering why Wagner isn't playing fits the gag so perfectly.

Is that the same as one of your ATG players questioning it though? He's not that long out the dressing room so interesting for him to say it.

Which is why I shared it, your welcome to pick who you want. Aside from someone who shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a cricket ground.

 

[Silver Silva]

Australia is negligent/patronising toward NZ, while NZ desperately seeks Australia's respect/approval that will never come.

I've always said that it's deeply unhealthy, & from a NZ perspective unless it can fuel a successful drive for revenge (at this rate only humiliating them 4-0 in 2026/7 will do) to achieve catharsis, then we need to move on. Stop putting Australia on a pedestal, move on from an obsession with them, have other rivalries, tell them to "get f***ed, we don't need you", or something like that, or at least get out of their shadow.

Of course, that's hard when you've never won a WC, or otherwise still feel you haven't "made it" yet as a cricketing nation.

Have NZ ever won a test series vs Australia?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Have NZ ever won a test series vs Australia?

Not since Hadlee

 

[SteveNZ]

Ross Taylor, unfortunately, isn't the best at analysis. To say 'I think it's a forced retirement' is hilarious, really. No ****, Ross.

Australia, meanwhile, continues its reputation as a mini America that has zero idea of what happens outside its borders. I don't know if there is a single Australian citizen outside of PEWS who follows cricket that isn't played by Australia and/or in Australia. Where Finch and Ferguson said Wagner should be playing, it wouldn't have been surprising to hear them say Shane Bond should have been there because he was so good in the 2002 VB series.

 

[SteveNZ]

Is that the same as one of your ATG players questioning it though? He's not that long out the dressing room so interesting for him to say it.

As I said above, Ross isn't a good analyst (wasn't when he was captain, either) and not only that, he played with Wags and isn't someone who can be relied on for a thorough, unbiased viewpoint. It's interesting because there were few waves made when Wags was dropped v SA, and the other times he has been over the past 2 years. I'm not sure it's as relevant as people make it out how he bowled to Australia over 1000 days ago, although I would have taken him over the number 8 batsman from the last Test.

The whole finger pulling and shooshing thing was fascinating, however. I thought it was pretty poor on Wagner's behalf to do that, as competitive as he might be...unless he was doing to the crowd. But Gary Stead was given the opportunity to clear that up, and in typical dum dum Gary style, pleaded stupidity on it and said he wasn't aware of what it was.

 

[SteveNZ]

In honesty, Wags should've retired last year. That England Test was as perfect a send-off as you'll ever get, & even coming out to run that last bye with Kane would've been another fitting end. I'll always salute his determination to keep going, but still, his time was up.

Yeah, ideally, but as I said a few pages back, you can't take the uber-competitive Wags for so long, then expect you'll get a very considered and realistic Wags at the end to realise it's time to walk away. The fire and self confidence that got him this far was always going to cloud when the right time was.

 

[RMBolton]

Not since Hadlee

And the closest since then were drawing 2 series, ironically both in Australia in 2001 & 2011.
What is perplexing is how NZ performances have seemingly got worse against Australia with a better team, skillsets, profiles & conditions aside.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

And the closest since then were drawing 2 series, ironically both in Australia in 2001 & 2011.
What is perplexing is how NZ performances have seemingly got worse against Australia with a better team, skillsets, profiles & conditions aside.

Also drew here 1-1 in 1993 against an unknown Warne (who had a very good series pre-Ashes/ball of the century) with Rutherford finally showing his talent.

Jeff Wilson played that matchwinning knock in an ODI then became an All Black superstar.

 

[Skyliner]

As I said above, Ross isn't a good analyst (wasn't when he was captain, either) and not only that, he played with Wags and isn't someone who can be relied on for a thorough, unbiased viewpoint. It's interesting because there were few waves made when Wags was dropped v SA, and the other times he has been over the past 2 years. I'm not sure it's as relevant as people make it out how he bowled to Australia over 1000 days ago, although I would have taken him over the number 8 batsman from the last Test.

The whole finger pulling and shooshing thing was fascinating, however. I thought it was pretty poor on Wagner's behalf to do that, as competitive as he might be...unless he was doing to the crowd. But Gary Stead was given the opportunity to clear that up, and in typical dum dum Gary style, pleaded stupidity on it and said he wasn't aware of what it was.

In the below photo, Southee was moving in for a double high five and Wagner is standing directly in front on him; I think there is little doubt that the raised middle finger was directed at Southee. That and the ‘ssssshhhhh’ gesture and Southee having to try and calm Wagner down at the top of his mark….it smacks of a player who started to lose his head quite honestly. Wagner has always been a hot head, and that’s great when that passion and fire is directed at the opposition. But when he started to get a grievance mentality and started acting out, it’s really unforgivable. Whatever you think about Southee as a captain, it’s unacceptable for any international sportsman to start disrespecting and undermining his captain on the field. The best way for Wagner to answer his critics would have been to keep running in hard and get on with it, rather than start acting out as he did. If it was ‘a forced retirement’ then Wagner should look to his own behaviour and lack of self control.

 

[NZTailender]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764890542557822992

Wagner himself said this was due to Southee putting him on the boundary and telling him "you're the worst fielder in the team" and then almost immediately took that catch. It was supposedly all banter and in good fun, but you never know what is said to paper over cracks in the face of the media...

 

[SteveNZ]

Wagner himself said this was due to Southee putting him on the boundary and telling him "you're the worst fielder in the team" and then almost immediately took that catch. It was supposedly all banter and in good fun, but you never know what is said to paper over cracks in the face of the media...

Where did he say this?

 

[NZTailender]

Where did he say this?

It was during the test, during a lunchtime interview/profile type thing on TVNZ coverage. Or when they pulled him into the comm box for a stint. Can't remember when exactly but remembered his explanation.

 

[Skyliner]

Wagner himself said this was due to Southee putting him on the boundary and telling him "you're the worst fielder in the team" and then almost immediately took that catch. It was supposedly all banter and in good fun, but you never know what is said to paper over cracks in the face of the media...

‘All good banter’ aye, but you can see Southee expects a high five and not a raised middle finger.
Wags turns 38 on the 13th of March, and just seems to be the sort of guy that would eventually need to be pushed rather than take the hints. Probably it was always destined to end in tears, which is a shame as he was a fantastic performer for the BC’s.

 

[Flem274*]

‘All good banter’ aye, but you can see Southee expects a high five and not a raised middle finger.
Wags turns 38 on the 13th of March, and just seems to be the sort of guy that would eventually need to be pushed rather than take the hints. Probably it was always destined to end in tears, which is a shame as he was a fantastic performer for the BC’s.

Bro when you play sport sometimes team mate exchanges get a bit blunt.

I've heard stories of Wagner turning out at ND training and lifting the intensity several levels, including chat. He'd keep people pumped for training instead of going through the motions tbh. Hard practice is good practice.