*Official* Australia in West Indies Thread

[The Argonaut]

At least one West Indian will get something out of this test. A great effort.

The umpiring again wasn't great. Some of those lbws were just awful mainly from Venkat. How he could give Sarwan out today I'll never know. Lara may have been a little unlucky but on first look I thought it was out.

The Aussies will be tired after their efforts in the field over the last few days. What a road of a pitch. It is not the type of pitch to be used to foster new bowling talent. Australia may have a more potent attack but the West Indies batting hasn't been too bad this series and some more life should be put into the pitches.

 

[anzac]

well done Australia,
well done MacGill,
well done Steve Waugh for equalling LLoyd's record (soob to be broken),
Well done Jermaine Lawson on completing an unusual hat-trick.

yet again some poor lbw decisions from the umpires.
yet again some poor fielding from the WI,
yet again some poor Captaincy from Lara if his pre match comments re playing for a draw so as not to get whitewashed are correct!

this would verify my theory the WI have served up these sub standard / flat pitches to try to nullify the Aussie quicks (because they don't have a pace attack in the same league themselves), and to stack their batting to occupy the crease and try not to loose 20 wickets!

another example of negative defeatist mentality that should bite you in the ass everytime!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Re: West Indian fielding, the Aussie fielding wasn't all that hot either. They dropped a few catches.

Re: Flat pitches: I am very very sure that WI wasn't afraid of the Aussie pace attack. Batting is our strength. The WICB did not intend for such pitches. In fact, there are intentions to place a serious enquiry into the preparation of the grounds.

Re: the pace attack: The pace bowling is generally young and inexperienced. These pitches are not the best to start your Test career on. Also, the Aussies have generally not bowled all that well...unfortunately, the West Indians have played some loose shots and gotten themselves out.

Re: Poor captaincy: Have you been watching this series??? The captaincy from the Lara has been the kind that does not deserve a whitewash. He has set innovative fields and has not been over defensive (ala Hooper), but the pitches and the bowlers have not supported him. I agree that it was a very poor decision to put Australia in first though, but I also think that Aus would have piled up 550-600 runs at any point at which they were inserted. Lara came into the third Test with a positive hope of winning, so as not to lose the series...

another example of negative defeatist mentality that should bite you in the ass everytime!

I didn't expect such a pompous and short sighted comment from you, anzac.

 

[V Reddy]

I remember Rayudu ( India A Player ) saying after India A tour of Windies that the pitches were under prepared and very slow. So,they were not prepared keeping the Australia Series in mind.

 

[Tim]

I think you're being far too generous on players like Dillon, Drakes & Collins who bowled far too poorly in the 2nd test to the point where the West Indies selectors just couldn't stand it any longer.

Had the more experienced bowlers not bowled half-trackers consistently to Australia then players like Lawson, Banks & Best may not have had such a harsh introduction into test cricket.

You mention that the West Indian batsmen got themselves out..thats correct because they've done it consistently over the 3 test matches so far so while a few of them have talent to burn they also still have a lot to learn. But lets not forget that the Australians exude alot of pressure on the field, even if they're not bowling that well & its a question of mentally holding yourself together which the West Indies couldn't do once or twice.

So yeah..Australia may not have been bowling well, but the question is what if the Australian bowlers were on form?
I'd say the Windies would be happy to say they played to 5 days with Australia over several of the tests.

 

[Top_Cat]

Sure the WI players 'got themselves out' but who's to say it wasn't because of the good bowling beforehand that the ball which finally got them was not a fabulus ball? At that level, it's often the good bowling previous to the wicket which results in the wicket itself. How many times have you seen a batsman tied down by tight, in-the-corridor stuff only to get out to a wild slash to a short-and-wide ball outside off-stump?

Bowlers do this because it's simply impossible to succeed at that level by just relying on your ability to bowl great deliveries to knock over top-level batsmen. From what I've seen of the Test series, the bowlers have bowled brilliantly, considering the conditions. No other team in the world would have taken 20 wickets in the match. On any other deck in the world, you could take around 30 runs off the figures of each bowler because the pitch was so flat and the outfields so fast, the margin for error was very little.

 

[Tim]

I totally agree with that Top_Cat. When I was in Australia I did see the 2nd test on TV so I do know what the teams were playing like.

I don't think the West Indies are in a position to say that they got themselves out...thats reflecting a bit of arrogance which is a little silly considering their current test record.

 

[anzac]

I didn't expect such a pompous and short sighted comment from you, anzac. [/B]

hey sorry if I touched a nerve....but I make no apologies for my dislike of negative tactics / thinking in the game of cricket.

My comments were directed at the reports that Lara apparently made in when questioned about inserting the Aussies - that they wanted to play for a draw in the match so as not to get whitewashed in the series.

IMO that would have had to have been the gameplan b4 the toss and as such I find that attitude & approach abhorrent & fundamentaly defeatist. Whatever he does in the rest of the match / series as Captain pales in comparison to the underlying ideology of playing for a draw to avoid a whitewash. Whatever happened to actually getting off your arse, doing your job and winning the match to 'avoid a series whitewash'? Basically IMO Lara was admitting that the WI were not going to be good enough to win 1 out of the 4 tests in this series on their own turf = defeatist.

The fact that the WI have gone into this series with a limited bowling selection and playing an extra batsmen does nothing to ease my mind, and neither does the sight of a new ball bouncing twice to the 'keeper on the second day of a test or the surface breaking up on day 3!!!!

I appreciate that the groundsmen can get it wrong (as per the recent series in NZ), but if this is indicative of the sort of pitches in the WI then little wonder their bowling is in trouble!

One of the reasons I like Aus & rate them so highly is there aggressive go for the throat & win attitude to the game. The philosophy is go for then win first, then for the save if you get in trouble. The Aussie batting approach gives them plenty of time to achieve either. Most other teams traditionally look to 'not loose' a match b4 they look to win it!.

As I have said in another thread - too many people are more worried about stopping the Aussies rather than trying to match or better them.

I'd rather go down fighting & be whitewashed in a close / good contest, as to me it's not such a quantum leap from there to victory against other teams. Whereas by playing for the draw you don't know how good / bad you are, and what the right tactics are to win later!

 

[krkode]

IMO that would have had to have been the gameplan b4 the toss and as such I find that attitude & approach abhorrent & fundamentaly defeatist.

...

I'd rather go down fighting & be whitewashed in a close / good contest, as to me it's not such a quantum leap from there to victory against other teams. Whereas by playing for the draw you don't know how good / bad you are, and what the right tactics are to win later!

I trust you have experience in this heavy losing streak, otherwise, how would you know?

Personally, I've never been as seemingly helpless as the Windies are in any of my games - be it swimming or cricket. They seem gone and out. True that the selection may be the reason for that, but who cares. In the end, those are the 11 guys they have out there, and they are merely trying to salvage all that they can.

I agree that go down fighting is better than everything else (except winning), but perhaps the Windies have had too much of that already?

I won't comment on if it is a good strategy or not, I've never been in such a situation, and so I can never accurately judge what I would want to do, but I can understand how Lara and the Windies might feel.

 

[anzac]

it's just my personal philosophy & one I took to the field in what ever sport / capacity I played in, either as part of the Captain / Vice Captain, junior / senior player etc.

apart from the mental danger to your own side re negative vibes etc, the other danger is that the knowledgeable cricketing public will stop going to matches if they get the idea that sides are trying to draw rather than win.

Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of a good rear guard action to save a match, just that I do not think that should be plan A b4 a match starts!

IMO Lara & the WI are doing themselves & their public a dis-service by selling themselves short! At least 3 of their batsmen are in form with tons under their belt already this series, and some of the others have looked the part - so why not back your ability & have faith in yourself & the team etc?

 

[Neil Pickup]

I thoroughly agree with anzac on this.

IMO a team should always be positive and never aim low.

I'll always remember Steve Waugh putting three slips and two gullies in in the NatWest ODIs in 2001 defending a low total, England consequently getting all out for 70-something.

Brilliant.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But Lara has not been negative in his field settings. If anything, he's been 'hopefully' aggressive (ie hoping his bowlers would bowl to the field).

 

[hourn]

I see Lara has Chickenpox - the curse of playing against Australia strikes again!

hah!!! chickenpox?? is that we they call hangovers these days

nah it was a good screen from the Windies board, because it at least kept the naive in the dark.

as for who is the best batmsen in the world - Tendulkar is. Ponting is in the best form however, but look at the attacks which he has caused great carnage too. The depleted pom attack (which was weak enough in the first place let alone after a stack of injuries) and this Windies attack featuring the fearsome pace duo of Pedro Collins and Jermaine Lawson, along with the devastaing spin of Omari Banks

 

[hourn]

McGill as a good bowler but he is so unlucky to be in the era of Shane Warne.

Warne along with Grimmett and O'Reilly are the only three spinners in the game to have good control of the ball.

People say McGill is crap because he bowl's too much loose stuff. But aside from the three above mentioned greats, there have been no leg spinners who have not bowled much loose stuff.

MacGill's control is probably about average for a test match leg spinner, but he's ability to turn the ball at times mean that he has to be considered as a top leg spinner.

If he was playing 15 years ago, he would've been considered the best leggie we have had since Richie, and possibly even better than him.

And when Warne came along he would've been considered an appetizer for the legend of Warne. But because he has been completely overshadowed by Warne, he is considered a second rate test bowler, which he is far from that.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hah!!! chickenpox?? is that we they call hangovers these days

nah it was a good screen from the Windies board, because it at least kept the naive in the dark.

Might I ask what is your source of information?

the fearsome pace duo of Pedro Collins and Jermaine Lawson

Jermaine Lawson? As opposed to that masterful Aussie talent...Brett Lee? Both Collins and Lawson are good bowlers in their own right. The fact that they haven't produced against a top quality batting lineup on flat pitches is forgivable.

Have you stooped to such cheap shots at the opposing team? The team which Steve Waugh has said is a team on its way up. He himself said that the 3-0 scoreline does not do justice to this team. These arrogant comments are the reasons why so many non-Australians dislike the Aussies.

he has to be considered as a top leg spinner.

he would've been considered the best leggie we have had since Richie, and possibly even better than him.

Umm...exageration?!?!

 

[hourn]

Might I ask what is your source of information?

originally i just passed it off until I heard it was his birthday during the test, which made me click, but i still i wasn't 100% sure.

but last nite at a family dinner it was confirmed to me except obviousbly the windies board is not going to want to let it out.

and in any case, think about it:

he can't play one day and suddenly has the chicken pox or this mystery illness that kept him out of cricket for the next day.

comes to the ground late that day with no signs of illness," except for bloodshot eyes" (as quoted in the daily telegraph)

and this from the Sun Herald:

"Lara had his eyes concealed at the post-match press conference by a pair of sunglasses but insisted he was well despite, having been confined to bed earlier in the Test by an uncofrimed illness, originally rumoured to be chickenpox but later thought to have been nothing more than the results of his 34th birthday celebrations"

the next day he is perfect again.

on the Windies,

what is Steve Waugh going to say at a press conference?? no, we're playing a bunch of spastics?? i dont think so. The windies are still in decline. Lawson isn't THAT bad, but he is not test quality. Collins can not bowl at international standard, I dont care what anybody wants to say.

on MacGill,

no not an exagerration. He is a gun bowler, and he's record at test level shows that he is - he just isn't in the class of Warne, and Australia have never really been to keen to take in more than one spinner (aside from SCG tests).

 

[Eclipse]

But Lara has not been negative in his field settings. If anything, he's been 'hopefully' aggressive (ie hoping his bowlers would bowl to the field).

Thats crap I am not critersizing his captaincy but his feild settings have been almost exclusivly deffensive but I will agree they have been inavative.

To call his feilds attacking though is redicules.

 

[David]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk, edited by me


These arrogant comments are the reasons why so many non-[insert foreign country here] dislike the [insert foreign country here].

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

To call his feilds attacking though is redicules.

They have been just as attacking as the pitch would allow at the start of an innings. Steve Waugh has had similar fields to Lara early in the innings. Even he hasn't been able to put 4 slips and a gully or such.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I don't think the West Indies are in a position to say that they got themselves out...thats reflecting a bit of arrogance which is a little silly considering their current test record.

Obviously you haven't seen the series. Yes, I will concede that the Aussies have bowled better than WI, but when you see a dismissal like Sarwan- hooking a ball a foot outside off at 82mph to lob a simple catch to midon, and you look at the state of the match at that point and his 5 previous such dismissals, it does represent getting himself out.

Lara has played beautifully in this series, but he has gotten himself out on two occassions while WI were firmly in control and frankly the Aussies were struggling, bowled and hit-wicket.