***Official*** Australia in the West Indies 2012

[Spark]

SA at home, SL at home, India away.

 

[Dan]

Serious question.

How many more series have you got before the ashes next year and who have you got touring next Aussie summer?

Every time I try opening the future tours thing on cricinfo my comp freezes.

Just wondering how long you can give Cowan before needing to replace him to give a new guy a fair crack etc...

I'm guessing if Cowan was dropped Watson would slot back up to open, so he wouldn't have to take too long to settle in. Khawaja would then probably be the option to slot back in at 3, given he's got some Test experience.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So India may wallop both sides and we see mass changes all round before we kick off the double header.

 

[Ruckus]

Im not gonna lie, I reckon our chances of winning back the Ashes at this stage are really quite slim. The bowling side of things should be fine, but the batting could well be even more fragile by the time it rolls around. It's a pity really cause it would be way better if was a even contest, especially with the series' back to back, but I just don't see where the stability in our batting is going to come from. Gotta just hope one of the young players will come through with the goods I guess.

 

[Spikey]

I'm guessing if Cowan was dropped Watson would slot back up to open, so he wouldn't have to take too long to settle in. Khawaja would then probably be the option to slot back in at 3, given he's got some Test experience.

nah bailey or forrest probably next in. although part of it depends on whether ponting makes a 37 ball duck next innings and decides to quit or not

So India may wallop both sides and we see mass changes all round before we kick off the double header.

or far more likely - they play like ****s and lure each team into a false sense of security

 

[Ruckus]

nah bailey or forrest probably next in. although part of it depends on whether ponting makes a 37 ball duck next innings and decides to quit or not

It's just never going to end...

I actually wonder, when was the last time an Australian batsman with a pretty poor domestic record (over a decent amount of matches) excelled in test cricket?

 

[Spark]

the captain.

 

[Spikey]

Bailey is above the 40 run mark so i'm inclined to call him at least average


personally i'm on the adam voges train

 

[Ruckus]

do you know how many FC matches he had played and his record at the time of his test debut?

 

[Spikey]

about 40-50 matches. county, shield and aus a.

 

[Ruckus]

hmm that's interesting then, cause I think he only had a FC average in the high 30's when he debuted. A difference though I guess was his age; only about 22/23 when he debuted in tests.

 

[NUFAN]

Bailey has showed so many signs that he's maturing as a batsman and would do a serviceable job if given a chance. The problem is that our three experienced batsman bat in positions 4-6. One of them really needs to move up (Hussey) or retire (Ponting) so we can include him or Forrest.

 

[Spark]

hmm that's interesting then, cause I think he only had a FC average in the high 30's when he debuted. A difference though I guess was his age; only about 22/23 when he debuted in tests.

his first two years of fc cricket were pretty poor iirc, more picked on talent than anything. the season leading up to his debut (and maybe a bit of the previous) was excellent though.

 

[Ruckus]

Bailey has showed so many signs that he's maturing as a batsman and would do a serviceable job if given a chance. The problem is that our three experienced batsman bat in positions 4-6. One of them really needs to move up (Hussey) or retire (Ponting) so we can include him or Forrest.

How do know Bailey wouldn't just end up like the others though? Like I mean the same could have been said of Cowan...he was in peak form when picked for tests and had been doing increasingly well over the past couple of years in domestic cricket, yet he has seemingly not been up to it (not wanting to completely write him off yet, but things aren't looking good)?

 

[Ruckus]

his first two years of fc cricket were pretty poor iirc, more picked on talent than anything. the season leading up to his debut (and maybe a bit of the previous) was excellent though.

yeah I could quite easily see something similar happening to someone like Maddinson - e.g. young, pretty poor domestic record, but obviously talented and ultimately turning into a very capable test batsman. Think it's also important to note with someone like Clarke though, that his first 2 years of test cricket weren't actually much different to his FC record at the time - he was averaging a similar mid 30's up until the end of 2006, which is when he really started to be consistent.

 

[NUFAN]

How do know Bailey wouldn't just end up like the others though? Like I mean the same could have been said of Cowan...he was in peak form when picked for tests and had been doing increasingly well over the past couple of years in domestic cricket, yet he has seemingly not been up to it (not wanting to completely write him off yet, but things aren't looking good)?

Yeah I don't know for sure but it's impossible to predict how anyone will go. The really funny thing is that we would probably take Marcus North's output now!

We set the bar a little too high for our inexperienced players and the conditions that we've faced particularly overseas in the past 12 months have not been roads to boost the averages a little, not that I think all our batsman are even capable of batting for long periods without giving a chance or two regardless of the conditions.

For argument sake, if Cowan doesn't do anything special in the second innings, I'll be torn whether or not he deserves another opportunity. In some ways I don't think 7 Tests are enough, but Khawaja and Marsh only got 6 with similar results.

Its just a frustrating time for almost all our batsman.

 

[Spark]

quite. got dropped, killed it in shield cricket then started scoring truckloads in tests.

 

[Spikey]

i favour dropping cowan if he fails next innings because i still don't really trust hussey and ponting yet so i kinda want to blood another middle order batsman (eg bailey) in case they back up my lack of faith and i mean watson at 3 watson opening what's the difference

 

[Ruckus]

Yeah I don't know for sure but it's impossible to predict how anyone will go. The really funny thing is that he would probably take Marcus North's output now!

We set the bar a little too high for our inexperienced players and the conditions that we've faced particularly overseas in the past 12 months have not been roads to boost the averages a little, not that I think all our batsman are even capable of batting for long periods without giving a chance or two regardless of the conditions.

For argument sake, if Cowan doesn't do anything special in the second innings, I'll be torn whether or not he deserves another opportunity. In some ways I don't think 7 Tests are enough, but Khawaja and Marsh only got 6 with similar results.

Its just a frustrating time for almost all our batsman.

Yeah I actually do find that really funny, considering the massive criticism he got at the time. As poor as Marcus North was, his performances compared to some of these guys was actually right up there, and his ability to seemingly convert every 6 or so innings (despite doing **** all in between) was pretty useful. Used to love watching him bat when he got going as well. I definately agree though that the bar has been set too high, but at the same time I don't think we should be setting it too low either. Averaging much less than 40 surely just isn't going to be good enough. Have we stooped that low as a cricketing nation? As far as I'm concerned Khawaja deserved a few more matches for sure, I think about 10 matches (preferably not dispersed over time) for someone with his potential would be about right. I didn't mind when Marsh was given the kick though, because he just looked clueless and, like Cowan, he just doesn't many good reasons as to to why he should be given extra time.

 

[Spark]

North was actually awesome to watch when past 30. used to nail the most ridiculous drives through mid-on.

it was the getting past 30 bit that was a problem